I remember writing a comment in this sub a bit more than a year ago stating that it surely won't be that bad: we don't know whether Trump will get elected, Democrats will put pressure on them anyways, abandoning Ukraine would be a massive blow to the US prestige they can't afford, he'll be so focused on internal politics that Europe won't matter that much, and so on and so on... Boy I was mistaken xD I'm laughing but it's not funny lol.
I just distrust the current American administration so much that whenever they do something positive towards us I still ask myself what's happening behind the scenes, I don't expect any news beginning with "US..." to be okay in the long run, only more bloody shitstorms.
Almost everything said then was correct. Except for democrats putting pressure on. As it seems we are misunderstanding their system of "checks and ballances" as when nobody wants to ballance anything everything just goes out of check.
USA really cannot afford what they are doing now. When they are all done - there is nothing left.
And what is the most telling is that even Poles are starting to sober up form that frantic american (fewer) dream.
The poles were smarter than that before that. They ramped up their military years before. Unfortunately, the Baltic states counted on their love of America to be enough for them to send troops to our tiny little States if we needed it. The signs were there years ago, when Fox News commentators would say, " would you send your kids tomorrow over Latvia?" Ideally, these states would join together in a common military at least... Better yet, recreate something like the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth of old, and become a federalized single state. We can't rely on the US. We can't rely on NATO. We can't even rely on Western Europe to save us. We have to save ourselves.
Lithuania brought back conscription in 2014 as soon as Crimea seizure happened along with increased military spending and started building a liquid gas terminal that nobody in the region even attempted until after Ukraine was invaded.
If you think only Poland has paid any attention to the issue before Ukraine was invaded, you're just not paying any attention.
I know the Baltics stepped up big time, but they just don't have the resources or manpower that the Poles have managed to scare up. Not their fault. There is only so much small nations could do.
So if you know they're doing all they can afford to be ready, why are you implying that all 3 Baltic nations just sat on their hands hoping for America to help and only Poland was preparing?
Well, it will never happen, but it should... If only to piss off Putin who still rages about it in his speeches. But, seriously. The Polish armed forces are miles ahead of anything the Baltic nations could scare up. We could use that unified defense.
It just would be nice to have a unified military with a stake in each and every state. I know it's pure fantasy and will never happen, but having the massive Polish army sit back and do nothing while Russia tanks march through Vilnius iš an unsettling prospect.
Man, we're Poles and we know how Lithuanians don't want it. There is no conversation about it in Poland. We have an economic and military alliance with Lithuania and this is enough against our enemies. Our politics is clear, to keep our ways of living, and if needs be with the military force. Don't stir this old shit up when we only want to have neighbourly relations. Poland–Lithuania relations are very good these days. Let's keep the same idea on.
If I were a Polish diplomat, I would issue a proper message of how we fucked up and how we're sorry. This would be a proper restart with our relatiions. Unfortunately it seems like entire diplomacy is gone... Standing strong with our allies isn't that bad. Not perfect, not enough in my opinion... Sveiki, good enough for now. We'll do better in the future.
Bringing back PLC+LT+EE sounds like the only way forward but we don’t have the time we need for that. Such sn union on paper means nothing without strong and synchronised infrastructure and we’d need at least a decade for that
It's not about Democrats or Republicans. US are retracting their resources and relocating it somewhere else since ca. 2009. Little by little there's less and less of REAL US involvement in Europe but that was always disguised under facade of nice words (diplomacy). USSR is no longer a threat for obvious reasons... and that was bad news for Europe's security that totally relied on US money. Trump is just a man with zero political/diplomacy capabilities and spits words from his mouth without thinking how they will sound in international political arena.
The Soviets are gone but the Russians are even more dangerous as they are actively waging war in Europe and want to continue at any cost. The Soviet leaders would never have been as rash and reckless as Putin has been.
Yes, they are bigger threat for us in particular, but they are no longer able to be a threat to US. Russia is lagging far behind now, far from the power that they were during soviet era. Everyone knows that Russia's interest ends with the Baltic states, Ukraine and Moldova. And Russia invests a lot to convince the West that it's not their war.
China is the threat to US now and US are loosing in this silent war already. So... it's understandable that they are reorienting their attention and resources in that direction. Even war in Ukraine is beneficial to China, because In exchange for military support they get Russian resources in Siberia and that's against US interests. So yes, US want to end this war but not for "people are dying on both sides" reason.
And now, imagine the future of your country, If Putin was less reckless. It must had been erased from the map already. We feel it's our duty to rid the planet from people who destroy society, spread national discord. You may say anything, but nobody has an authority to oppress human rights and freedoms, and that's the most important thing western governments do now.
Necessity? Are Poles escaping to Belarus and Russia and that has to be stopped by blowing them up? Remember - this convention bans anti personnel landmines - mines which, if used, will kill and cripple civilians in the future, but which won't affect any tanks or APC's - not to mention that armies usually know about minefields and have means to deal with them.
These borders aren't really fortified, and if they will be, they won't be forever. Have you seen those videos from Africa and Asia with kids lacking limbs? Well, there you go, that's the future.
I wonder if the report about man dying from mine blast after gathering firewood in woods near Belarus border near Šalčaninkai year ago was fake or not.
russians are mining everything in Ukraine, therefore better that it is us to mine and map. There is still no reason why civilians should wonder near the borders.
These are the terrible Russians in land they are occupying - are you suggesting that countries named here are also under hostile foreign occupation? I also wonder how much of this claim is true - since they are constantly crawling forward in multiple places in front line, sounds like one of the least things to do, as they would be literally making problems for themselves. As for the last bit - I understand that for a German it might be hard to grasp that border isn't always heavily fortified and civilians can approach it without fear of being shot from watchtowers, but that's usually the case -and the current political situation won't last longer than 5-10 years, regardless if it will end with WW3 or not.
Why do you want the Baltics, Poland and Finland to be defenceless against a russian invasion, unless of course you are a russian or have russian roots... ;-)
I'm genetically as pure Latvian as Latvian can possibly be - it just happens that I'm mature enough to understand the reality that life is not first person shooter game. Anti personnel mines are as useful against invasion as anti riot police troops - they can hinder only guerrilla troops or special troops on foot, while for actual invasion they will be quickly dealt or driven through with armored vehicles. All these measures strangely looks more like to impede movement of civilians living on this side of the border, because none of the measures taken will hinder actual invasion. I'm also pretty sure that anti tank mines aren't outlawed - but hey, soneone walking over them won't trigger them...
Like I said - look at Africa and Asia what happens when mines are used.
under current political situation we - accross the eastern Baltic border are more than likely to face Russian invasion in upcomming 5-10 years. And building defences when you are already fighting - is just stupid.
tanks and acps dont go through woods. They are taken and passed by foot. And thats how mines become effective measure. Reminder - the UA front line, even though slowly is lost actualy moved very little over these 4 years. 5 or 10km most in many cases along the frontline. And battles there are mostly done by infantry.
Allies had similar misconceptions about Ardennes region in 1940 - turned out that forested and hilly region not only doesn't really hinder movement of tanks, but it even provides cover for them. You must be living in a city and seeing forests at most while driving with car on major roads to believe this BS - I'm quite sure that our forests today impedes movement of tanks much less than forests of Ardennes region in 1940 - not only today they tend to have roads through them in all directions, but they also tend to be quite thin. At the same time mining them would be future disaster indeed - I hope that only those clapping their hands about mines will be the ones paying pensions to disabled people and compensations to blown up forestry machinery.
No, we can do it ourselves when Germany or Britain prepare eagerly for a DeFeNsIvE wAr against Russia (actually, will begin WWlll at a convenient time.) And Trump, messing around, probably from old age. He has some conscience, but only imposes sanctions, bombs wherever he wants, supplies weapons to Europe. He won't even think about laying mines near our borders, it's none of his business.
Yes, so that all your Scandinavian teachings have the opposite effect? Explode before reaching the border pillar. This is what I understand: brainwashing citizens of "civilized countries" at the highest level. I hope you understand that our population never needs your north at all. It's hard for the elderly to live there.
The US was never part of the Ottawa Convention to begin with, they supported the idea in principle but never signed, so I’m not sure why they are being brought into this discussion.
As for the Baltic states and others reconsidering their position, it’s understandable. The Ottawa Convention was an idealistic goal, but it simply doesn’t hold up when you share a border with ruzzian bastards who are neither signatories nor respect international law.
In a perfect world, anti‑personnel mines wouldn’t exist at all. Unfortunately, that’s not the world we live in and countries on the front line have to make decisions based on security realities, not ideals.
An unethical person. Both in English and in politics. If Israel is not a bad role model for you, and your entire elite is silent about the real terrorism, how dare you speak about international law? I know for a fact that you're mentally "wiping yourself" while watching news, with those half-century-old signed pieces of paper that wrote the last smart words. But when the news go on about Russia, you stick it out and shake it like a charm. On what basis should we follow this double standard that violates personal human and folk rights?
With all the news stories in the 90s about some innocent kid who got maimed by a mine years or decades after a war it's not strange that people wanted to move towards a better world and ban those things.
Wish we could go back to that. So many things about today that I know will hurt innocent people, but I know that are necessary and I fucking hate yet have to support.
In this subreddit, people are not shy about setting the flags and coats of arms of those states that have disintegrated as their statuses. How do russian people should perceive this? Does Lithuania want to return to its best years? She'll start a war soon, take over Eastern Europe? I remember, Lithuania was under the influence of the Poles and n*zis. Are there still those bastards in the post-Soviet country which our ancestors defended who need endless territories and resources? These questions sounds like bullshit the european media and people say about Russia
Speak russian, pay respect, condolence with the Russians, spend your money on us, it's us "in crisis". These are the minimum requirements for us to work for you.
What was even the point to be in it, besides virtue signaling? If a country invaded, there was a 0% chance they wouldn't use anti-personnel landmines. "We invaded you, killed your people, and destroyed your homes, but our red line is anti-personnel landmines. We are not monsters, so we won't use them." Like... what?
we are preparing for the worst case scenario in DEFENSE, we share a neighbor who is known for not giving a shit about civilians, international law or literally anything, besides, landmines have leveled up in safety in the past 30+ years
It's a necessity for us, I wonder what the US plans though. Put landmines all along the borders with Mexico and Canada...?
Nah. They can do this in the countries where their troops are deployed.
I remember writing a comment in this sub a bit more than a year ago stating that it surely won't be that bad: we don't know whether Trump will get elected, Democrats will put pressure on them anyways, abandoning Ukraine would be a massive blow to the US prestige they can't afford, he'll be so focused on internal politics that Europe won't matter that much, and so on and so on... Boy I was mistaken xD I'm laughing but it's not funny lol.
I just distrust the current American administration so much that whenever they do something positive towards us I still ask myself what's happening behind the scenes, I don't expect any news beginning with "US..." to be okay in the long run, only more bloody shitstorms.
Almost everything said then was correct. Except for democrats putting pressure on. As it seems we are misunderstanding their system of "checks and ballances" as when nobody wants to ballance anything everything just goes out of check.
USA really cannot afford what they are doing now. When they are all done - there is nothing left.
And what is the most telling is that even Poles are starting to sober up form that frantic american (fewer) dream.
The poles were smarter than that before that. They ramped up their military years before. Unfortunately, the Baltic states counted on their love of America to be enough for them to send troops to our tiny little States if we needed it. The signs were there years ago, when Fox News commentators would say, " would you send your kids tomorrow over Latvia?" Ideally, these states would join together in a common military at least... Better yet, recreate something like the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth of old, and become a federalized single state. We can't rely on the US. We can't rely on NATO. We can't even rely on Western Europe to save us. We have to save ourselves.
Lithuania brought back conscription in 2014 as soon as Crimea seizure happened along with increased military spending and started building a liquid gas terminal that nobody in the region even attempted until after Ukraine was invaded.
If you think only Poland has paid any attention to the issue before Ukraine was invaded, you're just not paying any attention.
I know the Baltics stepped up big time, but they just don't have the resources or manpower that the Poles have managed to scare up. Not their fault. There is only so much small nations could do.
So if you know they're doing all they can afford to be ready, why are you implying that all 3 Baltic nations just sat on their hands hoping for America to help and only Poland was preparing?
Recreate Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth? Are you high?
Well, it will never happen, but it should... If only to piss off Putin who still rages about it in his speeches. But, seriously. The Polish armed forces are miles ahead of anything the Baltic nations could scare up. We could use that unified defense.
At that point let's just do this on the EU scale. Even more for Putin to be scared of
That would be ideal, of course, but the chances of that are really remote.
OK. We'll turn BRICS into a military alliance. Then let's talk about who to be afraid of.
Countries invaded by Europe in last 20 years: 0, Countries invaded by R in "BRICS": at least 2
It just would be nice to have a unified military with a stake in each and every state. I know it's pure fantasy and will never happen, but having the massive Polish army sit back and do nothing while Russia tanks march through Vilnius iš an unsettling prospect.
Man, we're Poles and we know how Lithuanians don't want it. There is no conversation about it in Poland. We have an economic and military alliance with Lithuania and this is enough against our enemies. Our politics is clear, to keep our ways of living, and if needs be with the military force. Don't stir this old shit up when we only want to have neighbourly relations. Poland–Lithuania relations are very good these days. Let's keep the same idea on.
If I were a Polish diplomat, I would issue a proper message of how we fucked up and how we're sorry. This would be a proper restart with our relatiions. Unfortunately it seems like entire diplomacy is gone... Standing strong with our allies isn't that bad. Not perfect, not enough in my opinion... Sveiki, good enough for now. We'll do better in the future.
Can confirm that as another Pole, 100% of what bro says is true
Bringing back PLC+LT+EE sounds like the only way forward but we don’t have the time we need for that. Such sn union on paper means nothing without strong and synchronised infrastructure and we’d need at least a decade for that
Who are we? You're american
I am also Lithuanian. Or, should I say, Aš irgi lietuvis.
You are forgetting Trump is agent Krasnov
It's not about Democrats or Republicans. US are retracting their resources and relocating it somewhere else since ca. 2009. Little by little there's less and less of REAL US involvement in Europe but that was always disguised under facade of nice words (diplomacy). USSR is no longer a threat for obvious reasons... and that was bad news for Europe's security that totally relied on US money. Trump is just a man with zero political/diplomacy capabilities and spits words from his mouth without thinking how they will sound in international political arena.
The Soviets are gone but the Russians are even more dangerous as they are actively waging war in Europe and want to continue at any cost. The Soviet leaders would never have been as rash and reckless as Putin has been.
Yes, they are bigger threat for us in particular, but they are no longer able to be a threat to US. Russia is lagging far behind now, far from the power that they were during soviet era. Everyone knows that Russia's interest ends with the Baltic states, Ukraine and Moldova. And Russia invests a lot to convince the West that it's not their war.
China is the threat to US now and US are loosing in this silent war already. So... it's understandable that they are reorienting their attention and resources in that direction. Even war in Ukraine is beneficial to China, because In exchange for military support they get Russian resources in Siberia and that's against US interests. So yes, US want to end this war but not for "people are dying on both sides" reason.
And now, imagine the future of your country, If Putin was less reckless. It must had been erased from the map already. We feel it's our duty to rid the planet from people who destroy society, spread national discord. You may say anything, but nobody has an authority to oppress human rights and freedoms, and that's the most important thing western governments do now.
Necessity? Are Poles escaping to Belarus and Russia and that has to be stopped by blowing them up? Remember - this convention bans anti personnel landmines - mines which, if used, will kill and cripple civilians in the future, but which won't affect any tanks or APC's - not to mention that armies usually know about minefields and have means to deal with them.
There is no reason why civilians should wander near fortified borders.
These borders aren't really fortified, and if they will be, they won't be forever. Have you seen those videos from Africa and Asia with kids lacking limbs? Well, there you go, that's the future.
I wonder if the report about man dying from mine blast after gathering firewood in woods near Belarus border near Šalčaninkai year ago was fake or not.
russians are mining everything in Ukraine, therefore better that it is us to mine and map. There is still no reason why civilians should wonder near the borders.
These are the terrible Russians in land they are occupying - are you suggesting that countries named here are also under hostile foreign occupation? I also wonder how much of this claim is true - since they are constantly crawling forward in multiple places in front line, sounds like one of the least things to do, as they would be literally making problems for themselves. As for the last bit - I understand that for a German it might be hard to grasp that border isn't always heavily fortified and civilians can approach it without fear of being shot from watchtowers, but that's usually the case -and the current political situation won't last longer than 5-10 years, regardless if it will end with WW3 or not.
Why do you want the Baltics, Poland and Finland to be defenceless against a russian invasion, unless of course you are a russian or have russian roots... ;-)
I'm genetically as pure Latvian as Latvian can possibly be - it just happens that I'm mature enough to understand the reality that life is not first person shooter game. Anti personnel mines are as useful against invasion as anti riot police troops - they can hinder only guerrilla troops or special troops on foot, while for actual invasion they will be quickly dealt or driven through with armored vehicles. All these measures strangely looks more like to impede movement of civilians living on this side of the border, because none of the measures taken will hinder actual invasion. I'm also pretty sure that anti tank mines aren't outlawed - but hey, soneone walking over them won't trigger them...
Like I said - look at Africa and Asia what happens when mines are used.
Than you are mature enough to understand how mines work and not to wonder near the border.
under current political situation we - accross the eastern Baltic border are more than likely to face Russian invasion in upcomming 5-10 years. And building defences when you are already fighting - is just stupid.
tanks and acps dont go through woods. They are taken and passed by foot. And thats how mines become effective measure. Reminder - the UA front line, even though slowly is lost actualy moved very little over these 4 years. 5 or 10km most in many cases along the frontline. And battles there are mostly done by infantry.
Allies had similar misconceptions about Ardennes region in 1940 - turned out that forested and hilly region not only doesn't really hinder movement of tanks, but it even provides cover for them. You must be living in a city and seeing forests at most while driving with car on major roads to believe this BS - I'm quite sure that our forests today impedes movement of tanks much less than forests of Ardennes region in 1940 - not only today they tend to have roads through them in all directions, but they also tend to be quite thin. At the same time mining them would be future disaster indeed - I hope that only those clapping their hands about mines will be the ones paying pensions to disabled people and compensations to blown up forestry machinery.
long overdue
The United States has never signed the Ottawa Convention.
Maybe they quickly signed it today, before breakfast and then withdrew
I thought of this clip
Ah, so USA will help russia lay mines at our boarders.
No, we can do it ourselves when Germany or Britain prepare eagerly for a DeFeNsIvE wAr against Russia (actually, will begin WWlll at a convenient time.) And Trump, messing around, probably from old age. He has some conscience, but only imposes sanctions, bombs wherever he wants, supplies weapons to Europe. He won't even think about laying mines near our borders, it's none of his business.
👆This dude is russian
You partly guessed! But I'm also Azerbaijanian.
We should do the same in Norway. The border to Russia should be mined
Yes, so that all your Scandinavian teachings have the opposite effect? Explode before reaching the border pillar. This is what I understand: brainwashing citizens of "civilized countries" at the highest level. I hope you understand that our population never needs your north at all. It's hard for the elderly to live there.
Do you ever get bored
Good question! Sometimes, when I'm alone and want to talk with somebody on different topics. Now I'm watching a spectacular performance.
The US was never part of the Ottawa Convention to begin with, they supported the idea in principle but never signed, so I’m not sure why they are being brought into this discussion.
As for the Baltic states and others reconsidering their position, it’s understandable. The Ottawa Convention was an idealistic goal, but it simply doesn’t hold up when you share a border with ruzzian bastards who are neither signatories nor respect international law.
In a perfect world, anti‑personnel mines wouldn’t exist at all. Unfortunately, that’s not the world we live in and countries on the front line have to make decisions based on security realities, not ideals.
An unethical person. Both in English and in politics. If Israel is not a bad role model for you, and your entire elite is silent about the real terrorism, how dare you speak about international law? I know for a fact that you're mentally "wiping yourself" while watching news, with those half-century-old signed pieces of paper that wrote the last smart words. But when the news go on about Russia, you stick it out and shake it like a charm. On what basis should we follow this double standard that violates personal human and folk rights?
ruzzian bastard identified!
Good. Honestly i have no idea why we were a part of it to begin with
With all the news stories in the 90s about some innocent kid who got maimed by a mine years or decades after a war it's not strange that people wanted to move towards a better world and ban those things.
Wish we could go back to that. So many things about today that I know will hurt innocent people, but I know that are necessary and I fucking hate yet have to support.
Thanks, Putin and the mindless drones of US!
We thought that war in most of the world had ended forever. Now history is just repeating itself again.
Back then, only some geniuses realized that human history was like a mebius tape.
In this subreddit, people are not shy about setting the flags and coats of arms of those states that have disintegrated as their statuses. How do russian people should perceive this? Does Lithuania want to return to its best years? She'll start a war soon, take over Eastern Europe? I remember, Lithuania was under the influence of the Poles and n*zis. Are there still those bastards in the post-Soviet country which our ancestors defended who need endless territories and resources? These questions sounds like bullshit the european media and people say about Russia
Hope for better future.
Copium that wars have rules.
Bosnian war mostly.
But US never joined with treaty?
The United States has not left the Ottawa Convention since it is not a signatory in the first place.
Let’s start digging boys
Yea, for 5 dollars every day, year-round. Like most africans.
Bot😂
Damn, even bot smarter than you all!
We would hire you if we would like cheap labour but we can’t because mines are dedicated to you
Speak russian, pay respect, condolence with the Russians, spend your money on us, it's us "in crisis". These are the minimum requirements for us to work for you.
That’s a pretty big geopolitical shift
What was even the point to be in it, besides virtue signaling? If a country invaded, there was a 0% chance they wouldn't use anti-personnel landmines. "We invaded you, killed your people, and destroyed your homes, but our red line is anti-personnel landmines. We are not monsters, so we won't use them." Like... what?
Just an evidence about botomless stupidity and conformity of our local "politicians" and career bureaucrats.
I literally have zero trust in them.
Really understandable to be honest. Do what you need to do to protect your people.
It’s a nice club to be a part of, not very happy about how volatile one of the club members is though.
Insane. The EU leaders simply lost their minds. Total lunatics.
Amazing, let's just kill everyone!!
Everyone loves killing and dying! 🥰🥰🥰🥰
if they don't come in, nobody dies🤷♂️
we are preparing for the worst case scenario in DEFENSE, we share a neighbor who is known for not giving a shit about civilians, international law or literally anything, besides, landmines have leveled up in safety in the past 30+ years
[deleted]
This is the Baltic states subreddit, not the Balkans subreddit.
Baltic is what I'm referring too it auto corrected when I used grammar app
Sir, this is the BALTICS. You're a bit over a 1000 miles off.
Sorry its my autocorrect Baltics is what I'm referring too