I had a freemason knock on my door last Christmas, the previous owner's husband was a freemason and had died but they still dropped flowers and a card round for his wife at Christmas. He was quite open about who he was from and why he was there when I told him that I assumed the wife was now dead given we had recently bought the house as a probate sale. Then just yesterday the same bloke knocked with flowers and a card again, we recognised each other, and he immediately remembered our previous conversation.
I still don't know much about freemasons except they aren't too efficient at updating their records.
Very accurate about them being poor with updating records. My dad was a mason, after he passed away they still checked in on my mum for Christmas and her Birthday, they’d also take the widows of the lodge out for a Christmas meal every year, but that stopped with Covid.
Mum moved 3 years ago, this is the first year they managed to send out a Christmas card to the right address. The Grandmaster, who is a close friend of my parents, was well aware mum sold the house and moved. He’s been to her new house more than once.
I guess thats what I was asking. I know it is well known but when I was younger I remember it was quite difficult to become a Freemason. Just wondering if things have changed.
According to a few I've known over the years, it's pretty easy to get into and get promoted if you're under 60. They're desperate for new young blood so they're very welcoming if you fit that.
You can apply online to join. You are still vetted ‘socially’ - basically just to make sure you’re in it for the right reasons and not a bell end that will disrupt the lodge.
If you decide to join, you’ll have a meeting once a month for 8 of the 12 mths. A meeting will normally consist of a ceremony (think of it like a short play) for a members first, second or third degree, general business - followed by a 3-4 course dinner with a bunch of formal toasts, but mostly a good dinner with mates.
If that’s your experience I would say it’s very much the exception. A month off for summer otherwise it’s 1 meeting and 2 practices every month. Then all the add on stuff for Xmas and new year.
That is way more annual meetings than I’ve ever had - and I joined 15 years ago. 6 a year when I was based in Oxford and 4 a year now I’m in a London lodge - and I’ve been through the chair and am now DC.
Director of Ceremonies. That's the lodge officer who organises the ceremonies and practices, makes sure everyone knows their lines and helps makes sure the ceremonial side goes off without a hitch. Also responsible for protocol and etiquette etc, so for example at the dinner afterwards, they are the person responsible for controlling things like toasts and speeches.
Socials, dinner & dance with the old dears, charity event like the lions club does, ritual killing of young fresh men for their blood....oops sorry that last bit was wrong. No killing, none at all, unless you would like to be killed.
They go to lots of meetings and I don’t really know what else they do when they’re there.
I do know that one of the guys had a sick child and the Freemasons used their connections to get him seen by some top specialists for his condition way faster than he would have been treated on the NHS. They also paid for it too.
So at the very least that seems to make it worth being a member.
It’s definitely not a secret club. The HQ is open to the public and gives tours. Most lodges have open days a few times a year and will happily show you round.
Yeah, some secrets are symbolic, they date back to ancient (operative) masonry. Others are just because if you take someone to watch a film, you wouldn’t tell them the story or the ending. It’s more enjoyable for them to experience it.
Generally secret clubs can't really be secret clubs when they're famous
Aye. It's kinda hard to have a secret club when your meeting place is on the high street and has "Masonic Hall" emblazoned above the main entrance tbf.
Ofcourse they can be secret even if they're famous.
Freemasonry has degrees that go all the way upto 33rd (If its a Scottish Rites lodge). Your level of initiation will imply what you're privy to. A first degree will know next to nothing but the outermost, surface level stuff. Someone much higher will know all about the diary of Amoela ect.
Most people also aren't aware of their close relationship to the Shriners and The Order of the Odd fellows even though it's extremely public information.
So do they actually still learn esoteric religious/spiritual info? And is it signficantly different to what you can learn yourself via any of the seemingly similar but more open Wrstern esoteric groups? The main difference with freemasonry always seemed to me to be the social 'perks' compared to other similar groups, given so many powerful/influential people are freemasons.
From what I've learnt, very little of the information Masonry holds in the esoteric sense is exclusive to them anymore, though in the past this was different.
The social perks are pretty much their main draw nowadays.
I don't think they go round doing the handshake thing anymore
If you still want to do the Freemason handshakes you could just become Mormon... Maybe that's a niche joke.
There's actually a good few freemason buildings around, I wonder how many are still in use. I noticed the compass engraving high up on an old building a few years ago, once I noticed one I spotted quite a lot.
Has that changed? Some years ago my then partner was invited to join following some substantial career progression that put him in a position of influence.
They’re having a recruiting crisis at the moment. Most of their members are getting on in age and young people don’t want to join anymore. You used to have to be invited, but now you can literally apply to join on their website.
They have lodges all over the world, some are really impressive buildings. The Grand Lodge in London has been open to the public for about 5 years now and really worth a visit
You’ve been able to apply for decades. You still have to be proposed and seconded by current members, but they have specific events for those interested who don’t personally know anyone, to get to know current Masons
It's funny we were just talking about the masons today in my house. We knew a guy who was such an atypical mason, it totally shocked me when I found out. At the time, he was in his late 20s, a trendy musician and all-round interesting and adventurous chap. He was proper into it, though.
I was invited many years ago by a school mate to join. However the stumbling block was I'm an atheist and therefore could not join as they require you to have a belief in God.
This was back in the 90s and it was implied that I would have to believe in a god. It could have been the branch itself, I know the guy who invited me was a regular church goer (multiple times a week) and heavily involved in his branch.
“Do you have to believe in a God?
When becoming a Freemason, members are expected to be able to affirm a belief in a ‘Supreme Being’. This is deliberately phrased so as to be fully inclusive and we celebrate the diverse nature of the beliefs of our members. There is no requirement to be an active practitioner of any particular religion.”
I have some extended family who were masons, judging by the Square & Compass on their headstones. I’ve been curious about it since I saw them for their first time maybe 15 years ago, and the belief in god thing is what put me off originally. I still can’t bring myself to enquire about joining however.
I'm a Freemason. There's something like 190,000 Mason's in England and Wales under the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE) There are also Grand lodges for Scotland and Ireland and also two Grand lodges for women so I'm not sure what the total number would be in the UK.
Each Grand Lodge has its own requirements but to join UGLE you have to be 18, believe in some form of supreme being (we don't mind what it is so long as you aren't an atheist), are of good character, and want to join to make yourself a better person - not for material gain (which you won't get by joining anyway).
If you don't know any Masons then you can go on the UGLE website, fill out a form and you should get routed to the correct Province for your location where a Provincial Membership representative will reach out to you. https://www.ugle.org.uk/become-freemason
Not the OP to this response, but the OP of the original response.
The question doesn't mean as much as you think it might.
Every new member that joins goes through 3 degree ceremonies (this can take place at 3 consecutive meetings which might be as little as 3 months). They are then a Master Mason.
This is the 'highest' degree in Freemasonry - however, there are other organisations called companion orders in the UK you can optionally join which accept only Master Masons as members. In the US one of the most common ones is the Scottish Rite which has a system of degrees from 4-33, but while getting to 32nd degree is just a matter of turning up for long enough, the 33rd degree is an honourary degree conferred based on your involvement in the organisation. Note the US also has other degrees and collections of degrees you can do such as the York rite Which has another 10 degrees I think.
We don't have the Scottish Rite in the UK as it's primarily a US thing. Our equivalent is called the Rose Croix (formally the Ancient and Accepted Rite) and it is the 18th degree from the Scottish Rite, the earlier degrees being given in name only (so you don't actually go through the ceremonies). When you become Master of your Rose Croix Lodge I think you undertake the 30th degree, and as a Provincial or Grand Officer equivalent the higher degrees are honourific based only.
These degrees are not numbered and are not superior to others (other than some have pre-requisites to join). Each of these companion orders has their own hierarchy of leadership so you might be a Grand or Provincial Officer in one, and be the lowest new member in a different order.
So for me personally, in addition to being a Master Mason (and a Past Master) I hold very senior acting rank in my Province (ProvJGW, the 2nd highest non-exec role), In terms of companion orders I am also a member of the Royal Arch where I am a Past Master, I am a member of Athelstan where I hold middling past Provincial rank, Knights Templar/Malta where I am not yet Master of my Lodge (but should be in 13 months time) and Mark Master Mason where I am a new member having only joined in October and don't even hold office within the lodge.
Whenever I hear anyone say 'but youre just not high enough to know what really goes on' I always laugh on the inside as it just shows how little they know about Freemasonry that they are actually referring to a degree system in organisation that is an optional extra in America, and not even that common in the UK, where we have the world's three oldest Grand Lodges.
What does being a member of these companion lodges actually bring you? More social aspects? I'm imagining it like being in 6 different rugby teams - all pretty similar but now you have all the trainings, matches, socials and responsibilities for each
I've heard it joked that the companion orders are for those who didn't understand the teachings of the main three degrees! :)
Joining different lodges is like being in different rugby teams, but joining companion orders is like joining a rugby team, a football team, a darts team etc... All sports, but different games.
Each companion order has different ceremonies. While the main three degrees are based on stories around the construction of King Solomon's temple the companion orders aren't necessarily about that.
The mark teaches about diversity and inclusion with a story that extends on the story in the first three degrees.
The royal arch is set at the construction of the second temple at Jerusalem when the jews return from Babylon
Athelstan is set during the Anglo Saxon time of King Athelstan when he ordered crafts-guilds to assemble at York as he wanted to formalise rules of conduct for the guilds
Knights Templar is based on a crusade era pilgrimage to Jerusalem and Knight of Malta the Hospitallers' journey from Jerusalem to Rhodes and then Malta.
Each of these settings in place and time are used as a vehicle to symbolically explore morality in a dramatic form... some people, myself included just enjoy taking part in ceremonial story telling
I would, with caveats. For info I joined in my mid 20s and I am 41 now.
Beyond the moral teachings and the joy of being a part of an organisation with such a cool history, as a slight introvert I have found that it has vastly improved my ability to small talk with strangers, given me confidence in public speaking and performing and given me literally hundreds of friends (maybe as many as a thousand people I now know through freemasonry) though obviously only a few are REALLY close friends. I travel abroad for work and when I have visited lodges in the US, India, HK and Scotland I have always been really well looked after and I feel I have a support network in pretty much any place western civilisation has touched.
When you join freemasonry you join a lodge. Your experience will only be as good as that lodge. Because masonry has had declining numbers for decades (though numbers are levelling off and in some places actually growing slightly) we tend to have an aging demographic and not all lodges are equal. Some are growing rapidly and feel very vibrant, others barely have enough members to fill all the office positions within the lodge.
Joining a lodge that is struggling will probably result in a rockier road for a new member. In some sense its easy to get on the officer list and work your way through to become master of the lodge, but, you will probably be pressured in to joining the officer list before you feel ready to do so.
If you did join from an internet query you should be funnelled towards a lodge which suits your needs. For example there are special interest lodges. In my province there are school/university lodges, lodges based on professions (a farmers lodge, a musicians lodge, former military/service personnel) and lodges for hobbies/interests (rugby, fishing, craft beer) as well as general lodges based on the local community.
In terms of costs/time:
Time: Lodges meet between 4 and 12 times per year on a recurring basis. Normally something like the 1st monday of a month, or the 3rd thursday etc. You want to find a schedule that works for you. If you join the officers to take part in the ceremonies then typically there is a practice session before the lodge too, so you can effectively double the number of evenings out. You can give apologies if you can't attend and you are encouraged to put family and work first, but on the flip side, it causes problems if someone takes on an office and then never turns up.
Cost: Prices vary. I'm up in Durham and most lodge subs up here are £150-200/year with a joining fee of around £130. We typically have a meal after every meeting and prices vary but in my province its prob the cheapest 2-4 course meal you've ever had. Typically £12-18 plus drinks (either alcohol or soft drinks cost). In London those prices are substantially higher, I believe 50-60/meal as they tend to dine at restaurants. There is an expectation of charitable giving. Typically a collection in the lodge (in my province most put in £1), and a raffle (most pay £5 or £10). Also general donations to the masonic charity when provinces are with 'festival' years. Typically £10/month is normal but you give what you can afford. You also need to own appropriate dress for the lodge either a plain black suit or a black dinner jacket is common, and you need to buy your own apron when you go through your Master Mason degree. These are around £40 from online shops, but often people will have an old one they will be happy to give away if you don't mind one with a bit of a patina on it :P
I joined at 21 as my dad was a member and by 27 I was in the chair of my lodge , I have to agree that it massively improved my social confidence around all kinds of people and certainly made me more outgoing. Sadly my dad and I had a massive falling out and at the same time the lodge folded due to an aging membership when I was about 38 and I never joined a new one but I still have fond memories of my time in St Oswin 2327 on Tyneside. I actually performed the 1st degree for my partners dad which was a bit of an experience
Sorry to hear that. If you ever decide you fancy coming back, Freemasonry will be there waiting for you. I can happily put you in contact with some good contacts in Northumberland as I'm from just across the water in Durham.
You'd be most welcome on our side of the river too btw. Somewhere like Jarrow might be a bit easier than risk running into your dad if he joined another lodge. Lovely Egyptian themed lodge room in Jarrow too https://www.tiktok.com/@gavinrowell819/video/7158945482486615302
Thank you for your kind offer but to be quite honest I’ve got so much on my plate these days that I don’t have the free time to dedicate to the craft, namely a time hungry job and an autistic teenager. I know potentially it could be only one night a month but I know I’d end up on the ladder again and if I wasn’t able to dedicate myself to learning the ritual thoroughly and perform at my best it would become extremely frustrating.
No problems. Check out https://www.reddit.com/r/freemasonry/ (which has a slight US focus) for more info, or drop me a PM if you have any more questions
Interesting questions, to which the answer to many of them are - it depends.
When you join you are asked to confirm a 'belief in a supreme being', but because we accept men (and the women's Grand Lodges, women) of all faiths, we don't interrogate you on your belief system. If you answer 'Yes' to the question, then that's all good for us.
Having said that, you have to put it in it's context. Freemasonry was formed at a time when there was a big divide in religion (particularly between Catholic and Protestant) and religious tolerance wasn't exactly very common. The idea was to create a fraternity that brought people together no matter which side of the divide they were on, but everyone at the time basically agreed there was a god of some sort, but the manner in which you follow your god's teachings and practice your faith was potentially different.
On this basis we say non-religion specific prayers, we teach that you should follow whatever your religion says about the duties you owe to god, but we then turn around and focus pretty much exclusively on the moral duties you have as a citizen of the world, and a member of your local community.
We use the stories about the construction of King Solomon's Temple from the Old Testament as a way to set the scene for a series of dramatical plays with lots of symbolism to teach every new member morality and in essence we are each symbolically building and improving ourselves as a temple.
From this you can see the setup wouldn't exclude an anti-theist directly, but it would be something they wouldn't be interested in joining. You can also see why it doesn't make sense for an atheist. All our teachings start from the point of - follow your religion, and after that, here are the additional duties you owe to mankind and yourself, and how you can grow and improve yourself through essentially a neoclassical morality lens.
You can also see that actually gnosticism would be compatible and actually fits rather well. One of the somewhat correct allegations put to us is we are essentially a gnostic organisation (though we don't talk about a demiurge).
As to whether we have a larger amount of engineers than general society, i'm not sure. I have a background in software engineering and technology professionals do seem slightly overrepresented. I would say that generally regardless of class people tend to be fairly well educated, or at least interested in knowledge even if they (particularly the older generation) haven't had a formal post-secondary education.
believe in some form of supreme being (we don't mind what it is so long as you aren't an atheist),
Out of curiosity, what's the logic behind this rule?
I've seen plenty of discussion elsewhere in this thread about this rule and how it's applied, but none about why it exists.
Given the Freemasons are struggling to attract new members, have they given any consideration to scrapping that rule? Or, would it be seen as being too much of a deviation from the core tenets of what Freemasonry is meant to be about?
The official view is that is is a fundamental basis on which to build the moral lessons which we teach.
I somewhat agree with that viewpoint, but not entirely. I think the lessons and teaching we have still make sense to atheists even if they do lose a bit of impact.
I think (and this is my personal view) it's more a historical and masonic-legal thing that can't easily change.
There is no overall Grand Lodge of the world. Instead there are a series of independent grand lodges over different territories, typically a country or state. They each 'recognise' each other based on whether they all agree on the same fundamental rules. Recognition means the members can visit each other when in their territories so when I'm in the US I can visit their lodges. It's an important part of freemasonry.
You can see number 2 is: 'That a belief in the G.A.O.T.U. and His revealed will shall be an essential qualification for membership.' GAOTU is Great Architect of the Universe and refers to whatever god someone believes in - it's a convenient non-specific label for the supreme being basically.
Most Grand Lodges in recognition with UGLE have similar rules, mainly because UGLE was the original first grand lodge and things kinda sprung up from there once lodges started organising.
If UGLE was to remove the requirement for a belief in a supreme being, then it would instantly fail the recognition test with all the Grand Lodges who currently recognise it. In essence it would be excommunicating itself from the other Grand Lodges.
If every GL decided to do this at the same time, then that would work, but there is a first mover disadvantage that whoever does this effectively gets ostracised.
Similar with the whole women thing (rule 4). For over 100 years there has been Grand Lodges for women, but the two won't formally recognise each other any time soon.
All regular jurisdictions around the world have that rule. If we (in England and Wales) were to scrap it unilaterally that would mean no more trips to lodges overseas, or indeed Ireland or Scotland as we would no longer be following one of what are known as the 'ancient landmarks'. The belief in a higher power is one of those things that ties Freemasons together in their lodge, their grand lodge and internationally.
I've spoken to a mason from a local lodge who's told me that they're finding it harder to recruit new members. Memorising large tracts of writing in an older version of English (if I've remembered correctly) doesn't appeal to some people. It can also consume a fair amount of time and money, which isn't a necessarily attractive prospect to potential new members.
A relative of mine has recently joined and they have been shouting about it non-stop.
We all make light fun of them as “isn’t it is supposed to be a secret society?”
Initially we were sceptical and a little worried for our relative. They keep trying to invite us to “coffee mornings” and it was starting to sound a little bit cult-ish or like a pyramid scheme in the way they are so desperate to recruit others.
But it does seem to bring them joy and so far we haven’t seen it cause any harm.
I have recently discovered both my manager, and his manager are Masons. They were having an open conversation about ties (I thought they were talking about a golf club, as they are golfists also).
I'm only in my 20s, been a Mason for about a year now. Can honestly say if you're very social, like a drink, and don't mind memorising a load of scripts to read out in front of a small audience, you'll love it. I'm the youngest by about 30 years in my lodge though, full of old boys. They're desperate to recruit because they're having to recycle members that have been through the ranks and use them for beginner roles within the Lodge. They don't like doing that hence the reason for wanting more men to sign up and fill those roles.
My answer to their question about believing in a higher power was: Everything always works out for me in the end, so I believe something must be looking out for me. I am not part of any religion nor have I ever been. After that question, no mention of a higher power, a god or religion is ever mentioned again, nor is it allowed to be.
Freemason here. Speaking from the perspective of my lodge and province, I would say Freemasonry is thriving. We’re fortunate to have a university scheme in my lodge and as a result, we attract a lot of students. Happy to answer any further questions.
The main two are you have to believe in a supreme being. In the UK you’re not asked who or what that supreme being is - but they are much more religion focused in the US. Plus, you cannot have a criminal record.
It basically provides a moral foundation for when we’re taking oaths and obligations. We never refer to ‘God’. Instead, we refer to the ‘Great Architect of The Universe’.
I am a Freemason and happy to answer questions (also joined at 19 through the university scheme).
Membership is in decline but we are starting to see some provinces (regions basically) break even at a minimum. Over time lodges will have to close and consolidate where you have less of the but the remainder will be bigger and healthier. From there you can present a more attractive entity that someone will want to join. Our charitable efforts remain sizeable though.
I looked to join as it seemed a good way to meet people and to add a bit of structure and discipline to my life.
They have been very open and answered my questions, which has been cool. I'm not overly keen on the idea of becoming a lodge master (or whatever the rank is). You work your way up each year and people take it in turns if that makes sense? It's not a big thing apparently, you just run your specific chapter in the lodge.
They were explicit that they do not tolerate any silly buggers - corruption, anything illegal, favours and what not. You support your "brothers" but it's more of a friendship thing.
There should be no pressure for you to step on the ladder of officers. As some lodges are struggling for members they might be inclined to try and push newbies on and that's not really right.
You can join, go through your three degrees then stay a Master Mason till you die of old age. We do encourage people to go through the officers as it is a good learning experience. You learn more about the ceremony, it takes on new meaning. You learn and grow yourself as each year gets a little bit more challenging and by the time you are Master of the Lodge for your year you will have grown in confidence in performing and public speaking bit by bit. If you really do struggle to memorise then you can get another experienced member to sit in as Master for the degree ceremonies so there's only a little bit for you to do specifically to formally open and close the lodge.
My former neighbour ran the local chapter/branch... I think its more of a social and charity thing now, though he did say it costs him quite a lot of money to be a part of it
I used to live on a street with a lodge on it and honestly, the only time I ever saw anyone going in and out there seemed to be an evening social event. By which I mean a bit of a knees up. If they were having sober discussions about running the world, I think they had another properly secret meeting place for it. 🤭
It is basically an old boys dinner club. If you know any, the idea they are running the world is ludicrous. They have some weird rituals which makes it all seem more interesting than it is.
I’m a Mason, though I haven’t been to a lodge in about 15 years. I’ve never seen it as a secret club, more like a club which had some secrets about the way it conducts itself. Though that’s all open now.
I was interested in learning about it and a friend of mine at the time was a member so invited me to join. Bear in mind my experience is from a smaller rural lodge and how it operated 15 years ago. And it was a male only lodge, as most were then. I believe there are some that admit women now.
I found it to be at its heart a social club that raises money for charity. They have a meeting once a month which includes a service, which isn’t religious in nature but there were some aspects that remind me of some church services I’ve been to.
There is a requirement that you believe in a supreme being before you join, but that can be from whichever religion you believe in.
I met quite a wide range of interesting people there from all backgrounds. You’re required to wear a black suit and tie, so you all look the same. (It looks like a collective of undertakers to be honest!)
It was a fascinating experience, but I moved away and haven’t been to a lodge since. I may go back to it some day.
I believe that's changed, I'm Catholic and I was invited to join 16 years ago. I didn't as I had too many other commitments on, but the offer was there...
Yeah I know a Catholic guy in his 30s and he's got a bee in his bonnet about Freemasonry. Thinks they are sinister, corrupt souls, abuse children, etc. Very odd.
There is a papal bull from 1738 forbidding Catholics from being Freemasons under penalty of excommunication but no restriction from the Masons side on Catholics joining.
The papal bull has been reiterated by multiple Popes with the last time being 2023 so they see to care about it.
No, masonry is pretty labour intensive and takes up a lot of time. Considering the cost of living crisis, you have to pay for it pretty much every time.
Don't forget all the practices on top of the supposedly so many meetings a year, and.the invites to fellow lodges.
I'm guessing it depends on how much time and dedication you want to put into it beyond the basics.
But, its lie when you are told only so many meetings...when they start to miss important events at their children's school etc, something is amiss. So they encourage family comes first??
And charity? Have you added up all the fees, meals, and regalia? Charity defo doesn't start at home. And don't get me started on health....this is purely an observation, if you wasn't a drinker before you soon will be, and don't forget to get an extender on your trousers that portly stomach soon catches up on you.
I grew up around them, so been in and out of the lodges from a young age. Huge on charity, I remember a lot of charity events I went to.
Also if you’re a child of a Freemason, there’s a grant you can apply for to give you a bit of money for uni. Was very handy to buy my books with
Religious only insofar as we have prayers and you have to have a belief in a Supreme Being as a requirement for membership.
As to what we do .. make new members, discuss finances, decide which local charity or good cause to support, look after our widows. That sort of thing.
I imagine they have a difficulty because I'm told that as part of the promises, declarations and oaths a new mason must give, they must confirm that they believe in God?
That alone restricts their potential future membership quite a bit nowadays.
One of my Grandfathers was a Master Mason but none of my family ever followed him into the craft.
Numbers are dying off each year as most lodges have an average age of 70plus. Incredibly easy to get into unless there is something overtly wrong with you. Like you dress and do your hair just like Jimmy savile or you wear black face at all times.
My brother-in-law is a mason, as is a friend of mine. I think my BIL is the youngest in his lodge by quite some way! However, it's a big part of his life - he is very active - and I am sure in other parts of the country there are more younger people involved (he lives in a town that's got an older population). His father is a mason too, so something he got into from him. My sister is quite active as well. She's obviously not a mason, but she supports the lodge in various other ways.
According to my BIL, it's still very much a big thing. They raise a lot of money for charity and they have a lot of social events together. From what my BIL has told me, it mostly involves a lot of studying/memorisation of texts, then reciting those texts in front of all the other masons, followed by lots of eating and drinking!
Freemasonry has degrees that go all the way up to the 33rd (if its a Scottish Rites Lodge)
Craft Freemasonry only has 3 Degrees. There is an appendant body Freemasons can join that’s called the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, more commonly referred to as Rose Croix but these are not Lodges.
Your level of initiation will imply what you’re privy too
There aren’t levels of initiation.
The only things that someone isn’t privy too will be the contents of the ceremonies which they haven’t yet undertaken and some of the inner workings of the Lodge, this typicallly sits with past-masters.
Diary of Amolea
That’s nonsense.
Close relationships to the Shriners
Not withstanding the fact that the Shrine doesn’t really exist over here, the Shrine is a an appendant body.
Order of the Oddfellows
Have nothing to do with us, though they were inspired by Freemasonry.
Had a few people give me funny handshakes over the years whilst telling me they knew who my old man was....took me a while to realise what was goin on.
It’s ridiculously easy to get into at least in my city.
I bumped into an old school teacher and told him what I was up to these days, that led to him telling me he’s a Freemason and that I should come along. This also came with a paid offer to revamp their group/chapters website to sweeten the deal - they tend to look after their own.
When my grandfather was working for the local council he was frustrated by the freemasonry contingent at work and said he hated them. But i suspect he was even more frustrated that he was never invited to join.
My dad was a mason, he was invited to join by a work colleague. They’re quite open about a lot, really I used to gentle take the piss out of him for it when I’d drop him off for his meetings. His lodge would have their meeting and then sit about having a drink and putting the world to rights. I’d compare it to scouts for grownups. I still have his badges and regalia. He enjoyed it and I’m glad he had it really.
Currently now it’s more of an age thing, it tends to be an older blokes game. Younger men I know who are masons are so because their dads are or were, not always, but the ones I know are. Locally to me, more younger men join the Round Table first as a precursor to joining the masons. They do a heck of a lot for charity in my area, and are closely tied to the WI in my village. 2 weeks ago they came around with Father Christmas on a float collecting for charity. But it’s quite common in the Village for most families to have a tie one way or another to the Masons.
I've been a member in Scotland since 1989. Back then it took about a year to get in from being proposed and seconded and submitting the application, my enquiry interview before the committee, and my First Degree. Five of us went through all our degrees together.
Not a mason myself and only have the most passing of interest, but i've known two friends who have been masons (one joined at the behest of the other).
It seems like it's a rapidly aging organisation desperate for new members, where you spend an enormous amount of time having dinners and making speeches. Part of this also seems to involve spending quite a lot of money on other masons, with the understanding that they'll pay you back in future, much like 'getting your round in'. I didn't see or hear a huge amount of this fabled 'doing each other a favour' thing, although i'm sure it's a decent place to network, and if you can network well then i'm sure you can make friends who will do favours for you anywhere you go.
I can't stress enough the part about 'rapidly aging'. I had a flick through one of the magazines my mate had lying around and there were several adverts for stair lifts, dentures, that kind of thing. As far as i'm aware, neither of the aforementioned friends are in the masons anymore either - it's a 'membership for life' situation, but if you don't pay your membership dues you don't get to attend the gatherings so it's more or less a resignation until you fork up the money. I don't know if that money is backdated or if it's capped either, but neither friend has masonic debt collectors coming after them.
What I can recommend is the masonic building in Holborn (London), which is open to the public and has some nice art in. Good place to spend a couple hours.
Spending a lot of money on other Masons with the understanding you’ll pay them back in the future.
That’s a load on nonsense, and doesn’t make any sense (why give someone money to have them pay it back in the future?).
What does often happen is word of mouth recommendations. A fellow Mason is a builder and did our living room because people had to recommend him. It’s no different to what might happen between members of a Pub Darts team.
There are lots and lots of ‘chapters’ if you like, but many of those will consolidate in the coming years. This is arguably a good thing though, as a lodge’s success is largely determined by the quality of its members. This is why externally it can be seen as sometimes difficult to get in - lodges want to find people with common morals who will gel with existing members. Good people who feel inspired to do good. There’s a lot of misinformation by non members, even here in the comments. You don’t typically get ‘invited’ to join, more you will be asked if you want to come for some drinks first. It’s a chance to see if you like hanging out with each other. Then if you want to join, you should ask. It’s not a secret society, rather an organisation that doesn’t want to divulge to the general public some information - for example, I can say we give to charity, but its not appropriate to say how much each member gave.
It’s essentially a social club with a strong charitable aspect that meets a few times a year.
There is a bit of traditional ceremony in each formal meeting, then you go for a nice meal, then you go to the pub. Everyone gets something different out of it, some people like the tradition and history, others enjoy the sense of occasion, some like me who enjoy the fact you meet people outside of your normal social circles. If you want you can take additional responsibilities, someone is usually appointed to check on the old folks, someone else to coordinate charitable works etc. You are always encouraged to visit other lodges and make new friends. As people get older, they can get lonelier. This system makes that impossible, there’s always someone to look forward to seeing again. It’s why good lodges range from uni students up to centenarians.
Are there bad actors in freemasonry? Likelihood is there might indeed be some in an organisation with over 235,000 members. But we hope the joining process weeds them out. As per before, a good lodge is made from good people.
I just did a funeral for a former Freemason and I can confirm it’s absolutely still a thing
He got a guard of honour and they all did a little hand gesture as his coffin passed. They were wearing their necklaces and everything. Gave me great amusement.
From the two masons I know and seeing a stand trying to recruit at a beer festival I went to, I think it’s going through a bit of a crisis at the moment, and a bit like Soho house - anyone can join really.
Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do, we do
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do, we do
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do, we do
Who robs cavefish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do, we do
I was invited as I was in the process of joining the Police quite some time ago. I rejected the approach for various reasons.
One of the conditions mentioned at the time was that you had to believe in a religion (it didn’t matter which but you had to have a religious belief). In my opinion this may have been a requirement to ensure ones mind is impressionable, and you are willing to suspend logic and facts to believe in a well crafted narrative instead.
My ex’s dad was a free mason. Sounded more like a charity thing with a lot of social gatherings. I think he did learn the handshake but he always downplayed it as he did find it all a bit silly but you get real good connections with it
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From my understanding it's still quite big but it's more of a social/charity club.
Generally secret clubs can't really be secret clubs when they're famous.
I had a freemason knock on my door last Christmas, the previous owner's husband was a freemason and had died but they still dropped flowers and a card round for his wife at Christmas. He was quite open about who he was from and why he was there when I told him that I assumed the wife was now dead given we had recently bought the house as a probate sale. Then just yesterday the same bloke knocked with flowers and a card again, we recognised each other, and he immediately remembered our previous conversation.
I still don't know much about freemasons except they aren't too efficient at updating their records.
Very accurate about them being poor with updating records. My dad was a mason, after he passed away they still checked in on my mum for Christmas and her Birthday, they’d also take the widows of the lodge out for a Christmas meal every year, but that stopped with Covid. Mum moved 3 years ago, this is the first year they managed to send out a Christmas card to the right address. The Grandmaster, who is a close friend of my parents, was well aware mum sold the house and moved. He’s been to her new house more than once.
Good for him. Must be a welcome break from those meetings and ceremonies.
And next year, you die in a freak accident, and there's a knock on the door and condolences to your wife from the freemasons.
*spooky noises and arm waving*
I guess thats what I was asking. I know it is well known but when I was younger I remember it was quite difficult to become a Freemason. Just wondering if things have changed.
According to a few I've known over the years, it's pretty easy to get into and get promoted if you're under 60. They're desperate for new young blood so they're very welcoming if you fit that.
What do you actually do if you join?
Give them your new young blood.
You can apply online to join. You are still vetted ‘socially’ - basically just to make sure you’re in it for the right reasons and not a bell end that will disrupt the lodge.
If you decide to join, you’ll have a meeting once a month for 8 of the 12 mths. A meeting will normally consist of a ceremony (think of it like a short play) for a members first, second or third degree, general business - followed by a 3-4 course dinner with a bunch of formal toasts, but mostly a good dinner with mates.
It’s 100% not what most people think it is.
8 meetings a year is a lot. It’s more like 4-6 a year in most lodges
Not outside London mate, most meet Sept-April.
If that’s your experience I would say it’s very much the exception. A month off for summer otherwise it’s 1 meeting and 2 practices every month. Then all the add on stuff for Xmas and new year.
That is way more annual meetings than I’ve ever had - and I joined 15 years ago. 6 a year when I was based in Oxford and 4 a year now I’m in a London lodge - and I’ve been through the chair and am now DC.
What’s a DC you a like a grand wizard now ?
Director of Ceremonies. That's the lodge officer who organises the ceremonies and practices, makes sure everyone knows their lines and helps makes sure the ceremonial side goes off without a hitch. Also responsible for protocol and etiquette etc, so for example at the dinner afterwards, they are the person responsible for controlling things like toasts and speeches.
I'm in Plymouth. We have 10
Socials, dinner & dance with the old dears, charity event like the lions club does, ritual killing of young fresh men for their blood....oops sorry that last bit was wrong. No killing, none at all, unless you would like to be killed.
Be wary of folk buying one carrot
My neighbour invited me to join.... I was amazed as I always thought it was meant to be kept secret.
So how did you think anybody new ever got to join?
Sack over the head kidnapping.
Two of the guys I work with are Freemasons.
They go to lots of meetings and I don’t really know what else they do when they’re there.
I do know that one of the guys had a sick child and the Freemasons used their connections to get him seen by some top specialists for his condition way faster than he would have been treated on the NHS. They also paid for it too.
So at the very least that seems to make it worth being a member.
My dad was a Freemason (because his dad was a Freemason) and they paid for his heart surgery at a private hospital
I do wonder if it’s a “one day we will ask for a favour in return you can’t say no to” sort of deal.
Maybe I’ve watched too many mafia films.
If you want to join, all you have to do is ask. This was always been the case
It’s definitely not a secret club. The HQ is open to the public and gives tours. Most lodges have open days a few times a year and will happily show you round.
You’re right, very social and very charitable.
A mate a few years back, who was on the square, told me that it's not a secret society, it's a society of secrets.
Yeah, some secrets are symbolic, they date back to ancient (operative) masonry. Others are just because if you take someone to watch a film, you wouldn’t tell them the story or the ending. It’s more enjoyable for them to experience it.
Aye. It's kinda hard to have a secret club when your meeting place is on the high street and has "Masonic Hall" emblazoned above the main entrance tbf.
Ofcourse they can be secret even if they're famous. Freemasonry has degrees that go all the way upto 33rd (If its a Scottish Rites lodge). Your level of initiation will imply what you're privy to. A first degree will know next to nothing but the outermost, surface level stuff. Someone much higher will know all about the diary of Amoela ect.
Most people also aren't aware of their close relationship to the Shriners and The Order of the Odd fellows even though it's extremely public information.
So do they actually still learn esoteric religious/spiritual info? And is it signficantly different to what you can learn yourself via any of the seemingly similar but more open Wrstern esoteric groups? The main difference with freemasonry always seemed to me to be the social 'perks' compared to other similar groups, given so many powerful/influential people are freemasons.
From what I've learnt, very little of the information Masonry holds in the esoteric sense is exclusive to them anymore, though in the past this was different.
The social perks are pretty much their main draw nowadays.
Makes sense, that was my perception also.
A freemason once told me - "We aren't a secret club, we are a club with secrets"
I don't think they go round doing the handshake thing anymore. From what I gather it's somewhat influential in small towns and rural areas.
I think they're short of applicants these days considering they advertise. Plus they accepted one of my former colleagues and he's a proper muppet.
What was his reason for joining if you know?
I didn't ask, not the kind of person you want to get roped into a conversation with.
Just summed up free masons
Every Mason I know is an absolute bellend.
If you still want to do the Freemason handshakes you could just become Mormon... Maybe that's a niche joke.
There's actually a good few freemason buildings around, I wonder how many are still in use. I noticed the compass engraving high up on an old building a few years ago, once I noticed one I spotted quite a lot.
It’s very easy to get in. The purpose of Freemasonry is to make more Masons.
My Father in law is, I'm yet to be invited.
My heating engineer tried to recruit me
The one near me hands out fliers to come join, dont think you even need an invite
You will never be invited. You have to ask.
Has that changed? Some years ago my then partner was invited to join following some substantial career progression that put him in a position of influence.
I was invited.
They’re having a recruiting crisis at the moment. Most of their members are getting on in age and young people don’t want to join anymore. You used to have to be invited, but now you can literally apply to join on their website.
They have lodges all over the world, some are really impressive buildings. The Grand Lodge in London has been open to the public for about 5 years now and really worth a visit
You’ve been able to apply for decades. You still have to be proposed and seconded by current members, but they have specific events for those interested who don’t personally know anyone, to get to know current Masons
It's funny we were just talking about the masons today in my house. We knew a guy who was such an atypical mason, it totally shocked me when I found out. At the time, he was in his late 20s, a trendy musician and all-round interesting and adventurous chap. He was proper into it, though.
Membership organisations are struggling. Odd really, in an era of more and more atomisation and disconnection from other people, millions sit at home.
Thanks for that, didnt know it was open to the public. Will definitely check it out
Its worth booking a free tour of Grand Lodge as the guides will show you a bit more of it and explain a lot of the less obvious details.
I've been there many times as I've used it for location filming in the past, its one of the most impressive buildings in London.
I was invited many years ago by a school mate to join. However the stumbling block was I'm an atheist and therefore could not join as they require you to have a belief in God.
No, they require belief in a generic “higher being”. It doesn’t have to be a god at all.
Mother Earth or the “power of the universe” would be enough.
Their website even says they’re a secular organisation.
This was back in the 90s and it was implied that I would have to believe in a god. It could have been the branch itself, I know the guy who invited me was a regular church goer (multiple times a week) and heavily involved in his branch.
From their FAQs
“Do you have to believe in a God? When becoming a Freemason, members are expected to be able to affirm a belief in a ‘Supreme Being’. This is deliberately phrased so as to be fully inclusive and we celebrate the diverse nature of the beliefs of our members. There is no requirement to be an active practitioner of any particular religion.”
I have some extended family who were masons, judging by the Square & Compass on their headstones. I’ve been curious about it since I saw them for their first time maybe 15 years ago, and the belief in god thing is what put me off originally. I still can’t bring myself to enquire about joining however.
Requiring a belief in a supreme being doesn’t include people who don’t believe in a supreme being.
Still not sure that applies to everybody
That’s correct, I’m a mason yet 99% atheist
It’s not hard for me to conclude the universe itself is god in some sense, which clears the bar for ‘a belief in a higher power’
Had exactly the same - three different and unrelated friends all wanted to propose me, but I just don’t believe in a higher power and can’t fake it.
I'm a Freemason. There's something like 190,000 Mason's in England and Wales under the United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE) There are also Grand lodges for Scotland and Ireland and also two Grand lodges for women so I'm not sure what the total number would be in the UK.
Each Grand Lodge has its own requirements but to join UGLE you have to be 18, believe in some form of supreme being (we don't mind what it is so long as you aren't an atheist), are of good character, and want to join to make yourself a better person - not for material gain (which you won't get by joining anyway).
If you don't know any Masons then you can go on the UGLE website, fill out a form and you should get routed to the correct Province for your location where a Provincial Membership representative will reach out to you. https://www.ugle.org.uk/become-freemason
Would you recommend it?
Not the OP, but also a Mason.
I'd recommend someone looking into it if it interests them.
You'll meet a wide range of people, from millionaires to window cleaners.
It's very charty/fundraising focused.
There is a time commitment, especially if you wanted to do one of the many roles available in the lodge.
What degree are you?
Not the OP to this response, but the OP of the original response.
The question doesn't mean as much as you think it might.
Every new member that joins goes through 3 degree ceremonies (this can take place at 3 consecutive meetings which might be as little as 3 months). They are then a Master Mason.
This is the 'highest' degree in Freemasonry - however, there are other organisations called companion orders in the UK you can optionally join which accept only Master Masons as members. In the US one of the most common ones is the Scottish Rite which has a system of degrees from 4-33, but while getting to 32nd degree is just a matter of turning up for long enough, the 33rd degree is an honourary degree conferred based on your involvement in the organisation. Note the US also has other degrees and collections of degrees you can do such as the York rite Which has another 10 degrees I think.
We don't have the Scottish Rite in the UK as it's primarily a US thing. Our equivalent is called the Rose Croix (formally the Ancient and Accepted Rite) and it is the 18th degree from the Scottish Rite, the earlier degrees being given in name only (so you don't actually go through the ceremonies). When you become Master of your Rose Croix Lodge I think you undertake the 30th degree, and as a Provincial or Grand Officer equivalent the higher degrees are honourific based only.
In the UK we have many many other companion orders as can be seen here (and this is not exclusive as anyone can create their own companion order) https://www.surreycompanionorders.com/images/Companion%20Orders.jpg
These degrees are not numbered and are not superior to others (other than some have pre-requisites to join). Each of these companion orders has their own hierarchy of leadership so you might be a Grand or Provincial Officer in one, and be the lowest new member in a different order.
So for me personally, in addition to being a Master Mason (and a Past Master) I hold very senior acting rank in my Province (ProvJGW, the 2nd highest non-exec role), In terms of companion orders I am also a member of the Royal Arch where I am a Past Master, I am a member of Athelstan where I hold middling past Provincial rank, Knights Templar/Malta where I am not yet Master of my Lodge (but should be in 13 months time) and Mark Master Mason where I am a new member having only joined in October and don't even hold office within the lodge.
Whenever I hear anyone say 'but youre just not high enough to know what really goes on' I always laugh on the inside as it just shows how little they know about Freemasonry that they are actually referring to a degree system in organisation that is an optional extra in America, and not even that common in the UK, where we have the world's three oldest Grand Lodges.
What does being a member of these companion lodges actually bring you? More social aspects? I'm imagining it like being in 6 different rugby teams - all pretty similar but now you have all the trainings, matches, socials and responsibilities for each
I've heard it joked that the companion orders are for those who didn't understand the teachings of the main three degrees! :)
Joining different lodges is like being in different rugby teams, but joining companion orders is like joining a rugby team, a football team, a darts team etc... All sports, but different games.
Each companion order has different ceremonies. While the main three degrees are based on stories around the construction of King Solomon's temple the companion orders aren't necessarily about that.
The mark teaches about diversity and inclusion with a story that extends on the story in the first three degrees.
The royal arch is set at the construction of the second temple at Jerusalem when the jews return from Babylon
Athelstan is set during the Anglo Saxon time of King Athelstan when he ordered crafts-guilds to assemble at York as he wanted to formalise rules of conduct for the guilds
Knights Templar is based on a crusade era pilgrimage to Jerusalem and Knight of Malta the Hospitallers' journey from Jerusalem to Rhodes and then Malta.
Each of these settings in place and time are used as a vehicle to symbolically explore morality in a dramatic form... some people, myself included just enjoy taking part in ceremonial story telling
I would, with caveats. For info I joined in my mid 20s and I am 41 now.
Beyond the moral teachings and the joy of being a part of an organisation with such a cool history, as a slight introvert I have found that it has vastly improved my ability to small talk with strangers, given me confidence in public speaking and performing and given me literally hundreds of friends (maybe as many as a thousand people I now know through freemasonry) though obviously only a few are REALLY close friends. I travel abroad for work and when I have visited lodges in the US, India, HK and Scotland I have always been really well looked after and I feel I have a support network in pretty much any place western civilisation has touched.
When you join freemasonry you join a lodge. Your experience will only be as good as that lodge. Because masonry has had declining numbers for decades (though numbers are levelling off and in some places actually growing slightly) we tend to have an aging demographic and not all lodges are equal. Some are growing rapidly and feel very vibrant, others barely have enough members to fill all the office positions within the lodge.
Joining a lodge that is struggling will probably result in a rockier road for a new member. In some sense its easy to get on the officer list and work your way through to become master of the lodge, but, you will probably be pressured in to joining the officer list before you feel ready to do so.
If you did join from an internet query you should be funnelled towards a lodge which suits your needs. For example there are special interest lodges. In my province there are school/university lodges, lodges based on professions (a farmers lodge, a musicians lodge, former military/service personnel) and lodges for hobbies/interests (rugby, fishing, craft beer) as well as general lodges based on the local community.
In terms of costs/time:
Time: Lodges meet between 4 and 12 times per year on a recurring basis. Normally something like the 1st monday of a month, or the 3rd thursday etc. You want to find a schedule that works for you. If you join the officers to take part in the ceremonies then typically there is a practice session before the lodge too, so you can effectively double the number of evenings out. You can give apologies if you can't attend and you are encouraged to put family and work first, but on the flip side, it causes problems if someone takes on an office and then never turns up.
Cost: Prices vary. I'm up in Durham and most lodge subs up here are £150-200/year with a joining fee of around £130. We typically have a meal after every meeting and prices vary but in my province its prob the cheapest 2-4 course meal you've ever had. Typically £12-18 plus drinks (either alcohol or soft drinks cost). In London those prices are substantially higher, I believe 50-60/meal as they tend to dine at restaurants. There is an expectation of charitable giving. Typically a collection in the lodge (in my province most put in £1), and a raffle (most pay £5 or £10). Also general donations to the masonic charity when provinces are with 'festival' years. Typically £10/month is normal but you give what you can afford. You also need to own appropriate dress for the lodge either a plain black suit or a black dinner jacket is common, and you need to buy your own apron when you go through your Master Mason degree. These are around £40 from online shops, but often people will have an old one they will be happy to give away if you don't mind one with a bit of a patina on it :P
I joined at 21 as my dad was a member and by 27 I was in the chair of my lodge , I have to agree that it massively improved my social confidence around all kinds of people and certainly made me more outgoing. Sadly my dad and I had a massive falling out and at the same time the lodge folded due to an aging membership when I was about 38 and I never joined a new one but I still have fond memories of my time in St Oswin 2327 on Tyneside. I actually performed the 1st degree for my partners dad which was a bit of an experience
Sorry to hear that. If you ever decide you fancy coming back, Freemasonry will be there waiting for you. I can happily put you in contact with some good contacts in Northumberland as I'm from just across the water in Durham.
You'd be most welcome on our side of the river too btw. Somewhere like Jarrow might be a bit easier than risk running into your dad if he joined another lodge. Lovely Egyptian themed lodge room in Jarrow too https://www.tiktok.com/@gavinrowell819/video/7158945482486615302
Thank you for your kind offer but to be quite honest I’ve got so much on my plate these days that I don’t have the free time to dedicate to the craft, namely a time hungry job and an autistic teenager. I know potentially it could be only one night a month but I know I’d end up on the ladder again and if I wasn’t able to dedicate myself to learning the ritual thoroughly and perform at my best it would become extremely frustrating.
This is a really detailed reply, thank you so much.
No problems. Check out https://www.reddit.com/r/freemasonry/ (which has a slight US focus) for more info, or drop me a PM if you have any more questions
Not OP, but yeah! It’s great
Can you be an anti-theist?
Essentially believe that god is real but evil.
Also can you also be a gnostic?
Similar but not quite the same.
Also why aren't atheists allowed to be free masons?
Also in your experience do you have a larger amount of engineers in freemasonry than in the general population?
Interesting questions, to which the answer to many of them are - it depends.
When you join you are asked to confirm a 'belief in a supreme being', but because we accept men (and the women's Grand Lodges, women) of all faiths, we don't interrogate you on your belief system. If you answer 'Yes' to the question, then that's all good for us.
Having said that, you have to put it in it's context. Freemasonry was formed at a time when there was a big divide in religion (particularly between Catholic and Protestant) and religious tolerance wasn't exactly very common. The idea was to create a fraternity that brought people together no matter which side of the divide they were on, but everyone at the time basically agreed there was a god of some sort, but the manner in which you follow your god's teachings and practice your faith was potentially different.
On this basis we say non-religion specific prayers, we teach that you should follow whatever your religion says about the duties you owe to god, but we then turn around and focus pretty much exclusively on the moral duties you have as a citizen of the world, and a member of your local community.
We use the stories about the construction of King Solomon's Temple from the Old Testament as a way to set the scene for a series of dramatical plays with lots of symbolism to teach every new member morality and in essence we are each symbolically building and improving ourselves as a temple.
From this you can see the setup wouldn't exclude an anti-theist directly, but it would be something they wouldn't be interested in joining. You can also see why it doesn't make sense for an atheist. All our teachings start from the point of - follow your religion, and after that, here are the additional duties you owe to mankind and yourself, and how you can grow and improve yourself through essentially a neoclassical morality lens.
You can also see that actually gnosticism would be compatible and actually fits rather well. One of the somewhat correct allegations put to us is we are essentially a gnostic organisation (though we don't talk about a demiurge).
As to whether we have a larger amount of engineers than general society, i'm not sure. I have a background in software engineering and technology professionals do seem slightly overrepresented. I would say that generally regardless of class people tend to be fairly well educated, or at least interested in knowledge even if they (particularly the older generation) haven't had a formal post-secondary education.
PS we have a subreddit. Slightly more of a US focus, but plenty of brits there too: https://www.reddit.com/r/freemasonry/
Out of curiosity, what's the logic behind this rule?
I've seen plenty of discussion elsewhere in this thread about this rule and how it's applied, but none about why it exists.
Given the Freemasons are struggling to attract new members, have they given any consideration to scrapping that rule? Or, would it be seen as being too much of a deviation from the core tenets of what Freemasonry is meant to be about?
The official view is that is is a fundamental basis on which to build the moral lessons which we teach.
I somewhat agree with that viewpoint, but not entirely. I think the lessons and teaching we have still make sense to atheists even if they do lose a bit of impact.
I think (and this is my personal view) it's more a historical and masonic-legal thing that can't easily change.
There is no overall Grand Lodge of the world. Instead there are a series of independent grand lodges over different territories, typically a country or state. They each 'recognise' each other based on whether they all agree on the same fundamental rules. Recognition means the members can visit each other when in their territories so when I'm in the US I can visit their lodges. It's an important part of freemasonry.
You can read up on UGLEs view on the 'Basic Principles for Grand Lodge Recognition' here in the book of constitutions https://www.ugle.org.uk/sites/default/files/media/file/book-of-constitutions-craft-rules-nov-2025.pdf
You can see number 2 is: 'That a belief in the G.A.O.T.U. and His revealed will shall be an essential qualification for membership.' GAOTU is Great Architect of the Universe and refers to whatever god someone believes in - it's a convenient non-specific label for the supreme being basically.
Most Grand Lodges in recognition with UGLE have similar rules, mainly because UGLE was the original first grand lodge and things kinda sprung up from there once lodges started organising.
If UGLE was to remove the requirement for a belief in a supreme being, then it would instantly fail the recognition test with all the Grand Lodges who currently recognise it. In essence it would be excommunicating itself from the other Grand Lodges.
If every GL decided to do this at the same time, then that would work, but there is a first mover disadvantage that whoever does this effectively gets ostracised.
Similar with the whole women thing (rule 4). For over 100 years there has been Grand Lodges for women, but the two won't formally recognise each other any time soon.
All regular jurisdictions around the world have that rule. If we (in England and Wales) were to scrap it unilaterally that would mean no more trips to lodges overseas, or indeed Ireland or Scotland as we would no longer be following one of what are known as the 'ancient landmarks'. The belief in a higher power is one of those things that ties Freemasons together in their lodge, their grand lodge and internationally.
I've spoken to a mason from a local lodge who's told me that they're finding it harder to recruit new members. Memorising large tracts of writing in an older version of English (if I've remembered correctly) doesn't appeal to some people. It can also consume a fair amount of time and money, which isn't a necessarily attractive prospect to potential new members.
A relative of mine has recently joined and they have been shouting about it non-stop.
We all make light fun of them as “isn’t it is supposed to be a secret society?”
Initially we were sceptical and a little worried for our relative. They keep trying to invite us to “coffee mornings” and it was starting to sound a little bit cult-ish or like a pyramid scheme in the way they are so desperate to recruit others.
But it does seem to bring them joy and so far we haven’t seen it cause any harm.
It's not a secret society, it's a society with secrets.
Alright Dan Brown.
https://preview.redd.it/26k67p6s7m8g1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3eae8ef15e42991399de736fa0f1415cdd38c22c
Alive and well
Who keeps the metric system down?
To be fair, that episode is nearly 31 years old. Times change.
Tbf it was a joke post
I have recently discovered both my manager, and his manager are Masons. They were having an open conversation about ties (I thought they were talking about a golf club, as they are golfists also).
I haven’t had an invitation yet…
So you know, you don’t need an invite. You can register interest online.
In fact, their aim is for people to approach them iirc.
Correct, I am one
You won't get one. You need to ask...
I'm only in my 20s, been a Mason for about a year now. Can honestly say if you're very social, like a drink, and don't mind memorising a load of scripts to read out in front of a small audience, you'll love it. I'm the youngest by about 30 years in my lodge though, full of old boys. They're desperate to recruit because they're having to recycle members that have been through the ranks and use them for beginner roles within the Lodge. They don't like doing that hence the reason for wanting more men to sign up and fill those roles.
You can't find many young people who aren't atheists
My answer to their question about believing in a higher power was: Everything always works out for me in the end, so I believe something must be looking out for me. I am not part of any religion nor have I ever been. After that question, no mention of a higher power, a god or religion is ever mentioned again, nor is it allowed to be.
That is the dodgiest rationalisation for a higher power I've ever seen
What do you mean by beginners roles?
There are a number of positions in the lodge (officers).
They all play a part in running the lodge and the ceremonies.
The more senior the role, the more you'll be involved in the ceremony bits.
Correct ^^
[deleted]
Pls explain further about these rare gentlemen
They’re not all old school cockneys. You probably see them all the time, but without the briefcase and suit - just a normal person.
Freemason here. Speaking from the perspective of my lodge and province, I would say Freemasonry is thriving. We’re fortunate to have a university scheme in my lodge and as a result, we attract a lot of students. Happy to answer any further questions.
Are there any prerequisites for joining?
The main two are you have to believe in a supreme being. In the UK you’re not asked who or what that supreme being is - but they are much more religion focused in the US. Plus, you cannot have a criminal record.
Why the requirement to believe in a supreme being?
It basically provides a moral foundation for when we’re taking oaths and obligations. We never refer to ‘God’. Instead, we refer to the ‘Great Architect of The Universe’.
Yes, its big. Lodge in most towns
Is called Costlots-masonry now.
Nothings free in the UK now. Damn that inflation!
The biggest lie in Freemasonry is the free bit 😉
I am a Freemason and happy to answer questions (also joined at 19 through the university scheme).
Membership is in decline but we are starting to see some provinces (regions basically) break even at a minimum. Over time lodges will have to close and consolidate where you have less of the but the remainder will be bigger and healthier. From there you can present a more attractive entity that someone will want to join. Our charitable efforts remain sizeable though.
I looked to join as it seemed a good way to meet people and to add a bit of structure and discipline to my life.
They have been very open and answered my questions, which has been cool. I'm not overly keen on the idea of becoming a lodge master (or whatever the rank is). You work your way up each year and people take it in turns if that makes sense? It's not a big thing apparently, you just run your specific chapter in the lodge.
They were explicit that they do not tolerate any silly buggers - corruption, anything illegal, favours and what not. You support your "brothers" but it's more of a friendship thing.
I'm torn on the subject.
There should be no pressure for you to step on the ladder of officers. As some lodges are struggling for members they might be inclined to try and push newbies on and that's not really right.
You can join, go through your three degrees then stay a Master Mason till you die of old age. We do encourage people to go through the officers as it is a good learning experience. You learn more about the ceremony, it takes on new meaning. You learn and grow yourself as each year gets a little bit more challenging and by the time you are Master of the Lodge for your year you will have grown in confidence in performing and public speaking bit by bit. If you really do struggle to memorise then you can get another experienced member to sit in as Master for the degree ceremonies so there's only a little bit for you to do specifically to formally open and close the lodge.
My former neighbour ran the local chapter/branch... I think its more of a social and charity thing now, though he did say it costs him quite a lot of money to be a part of it
Think it’s predominantly pensioners from what I can tell
Yes, I am one and it is really just a social club where you meet a bunch of old boys, eat a meal and give some money to charity.
I’m interested and intrigued. What would yearly costs for donations be? Are you expected to be donating hundreds to charity ?
Second largest charity donations in the UK only beaten by the lottery.
It is and always been about charity at its heart, also getting drunk and having a good chat with other men.
I used to live on a street with a lodge on it and honestly, the only time I ever saw anyone going in and out there seemed to be an evening social event. By which I mean a bit of a knees up. If they were having sober discussions about running the world, I think they had another properly secret meeting place for it. 🤭
“Running the world”? 🤣
We can barely agree what the meal after the meeting is going to be!
It is basically an old boys dinner club. If you know any, the idea they are running the world is ludicrous. They have some weird rituals which makes it all seem more interesting than it is.
I’m a Mason, though I haven’t been to a lodge in about 15 years. I’ve never seen it as a secret club, more like a club which had some secrets about the way it conducts itself. Though that’s all open now.
I was interested in learning about it and a friend of mine at the time was a member so invited me to join. Bear in mind my experience is from a smaller rural lodge and how it operated 15 years ago. And it was a male only lodge, as most were then. I believe there are some that admit women now.
I found it to be at its heart a social club that raises money for charity. They have a meeting once a month which includes a service, which isn’t religious in nature but there were some aspects that remind me of some church services I’ve been to.
There is a requirement that you believe in a supreme being before you join, but that can be from whichever religion you believe in.
I met quite a wide range of interesting people there from all backgrounds. You’re required to wear a black suit and tie, so you all look the same. (It looks like a collective of undertakers to be honest!)
It was a fascinating experience, but I moved away and haven’t been to a lodge since. I may go back to it some day.
They don’t, but there are women’s lodges - and have been since abt 1900 .. it’s just more people have heard of them now.
The Oxford Bar in Edinburgh was full of them a few weeks ago. I think there was a do on in the big hoose nearby
About 20 years ago I knew a guy who was asked to join, but had to turn it down because he was a Catholic. Apparently you couldn't be both?
I wonder if this is still a thing?
Yep, there is still a papul bull regarding being a Freemason if your catholic.
I believe that's changed, I'm Catholic and I was invited to join 16 years ago. I didn't as I had too many other commitments on, but the offer was there...
I don’t think the masons mind, it’s the Catholic Church that does
Yeah I know a Catholic guy in his 30s and he's got a bee in his bonnet about Freemasonry. Thinks they are sinister, corrupt souls, abuse children, etc. Very odd.
Well that’s a bit rich coming from a catholic, eh?
Sadly not https://www.ncregister.com/cna/bishop-who-participated-in-freemasonry-event-affirms-its-incompatibility-with-catholicism however the freemasons have no issue with the Catholic Church
There is a papal bull from 1738 forbidding Catholics from being Freemasons under penalty of excommunication but no restriction from the Masons side on Catholics joining.
The papal bull has been reiterated by multiple Popes with the last time being 2023 so they see to care about it.
Lots of lapsed Catholics in lodges, I gather, but not observant ones. It's the church that doesn't like it, not the other way around.
(Quite a few masons in my wider family, apparently. I only ever hear about the charity donation paperwork, when one of them has a grumble.)
No, masonry is pretty labour intensive and takes up a lot of time. Considering the cost of living crisis, you have to pay for it pretty much every time.
Don't forget all the practices on top of the supposedly so many meetings a year, and.the invites to fellow lodges.
I'm guessing it depends on how much time and dedication you want to put into it beyond the basics.
But, its lie when you are told only so many meetings...when they start to miss important events at their children's school etc, something is amiss. So they encourage family comes first??
And charity? Have you added up all the fees, meals, and regalia? Charity defo doesn't start at home. And don't get me started on health....this is purely an observation, if you wasn't a drinker before you soon will be, and don't forget to get an extender on your trousers that portly stomach soon catches up on you.
I grew up around them, so been in and out of the lodges from a young age. Huge on charity, I remember a lot of charity events I went to. Also if you’re a child of a Freemason, there’s a grant you can apply for to give you a bit of money for uni. Was very handy to buy my books with
What do they actually do though ? Is it a religious thing ?
You always seem to have to dip into your wallet for something or other too.
Religious only insofar as we have prayers and you have to have a belief in a Supreme Being as a requirement for membership.
As to what we do .. make new members, discuss finances, decide which local charity or good cause to support, look after our widows. That sort of thing.
I imagine they have a difficulty because I'm told that as part of the promises, declarations and oaths a new mason must give, they must confirm that they believe in God?
That alone restricts their potential future membership quite a bit nowadays.
One of my Grandfathers was a Master Mason but none of my family ever followed him into the craft.
Nope. Have a belief in a higher power is the requirement.
Numbers are dying off each year as most lodges have an average age of 70plus. Incredibly easy to get into unless there is something overtly wrong with you. Like you dress and do your hair just like Jimmy savile or you wear black face at all times.
My brother-in-law is a mason, as is a friend of mine. I think my BIL is the youngest in his lodge by quite some way! However, it's a big part of his life - he is very active - and I am sure in other parts of the country there are more younger people involved (he lives in a town that's got an older population). His father is a mason too, so something he got into from him. My sister is quite active as well. She's obviously not a mason, but she supports the lodge in various other ways.
According to my BIL, it's still very much a big thing. They raise a lot of money for charity and they have a lot of social events together. From what my BIL has told me, it mostly involves a lot of studying/memorisation of texts, then reciting those texts in front of all the other masons, followed by lots of eating and drinking!
Craft Freemasonry only has 3 Degrees. There is an appendant body Freemasons can join that’s called the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite, more commonly referred to as Rose Croix but these are not Lodges.
There aren’t levels of initiation.
The only things that someone isn’t privy too will be the contents of the ceremonies which they haven’t yet undertaken and some of the inner workings of the Lodge, this typicallly sits with past-masters.
That’s nonsense.
Not withstanding the fact that the Shrine doesn’t really exist over here, the Shrine is a an appendant body.
Have nothing to do with us, though they were inspired by Freemasonry.
Yeah. It used to be underground but now people boast about it on Facebook
It only went underground during WW2 when Hitler made them targets. The secrecy continued after that, but nothing about it is ‘underground’ now 👍🏼
I’m in my 50s and haven’t known a single person in my entire life that I knew to be a Mason
Entire possible that I’ve met hundreds and they’be just hidden it from me, but who knows?!
My old fella is one. Quite high up i believe.
Ive been invited but not for me...
Had a few people give me funny handshakes over the years whilst telling me they knew who my old man was....took me a while to realise what was goin on.
Can you describe the handshake?
All on Google. Pointless to know outside of a lodge though, it’s symbolic 👍🏼
I’m a little younger and have met three that were happy to talk about it to some degree. Probably a whole bunch more that I don’t know about.
It’s ridiculously easy to get into at least in my city.
I bumped into an old school teacher and told him what I was up to these days, that led to him telling me he’s a Freemason and that I should come along. This also came with a paid offer to revamp their group/chapters website to sweeten the deal - they tend to look after their own.
I declined.
When my grandfather was working for the local council he was frustrated by the freemasonry contingent at work and said he hated them. But i suspect he was even more frustrated that he was never invited to join.
Small potatoes compared to the fabians.
Nah. Cost of living has gone up so much they're just called the Masons.
We met on the level and we parted on the square...
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do
We do
My dad was a mason, he was invited to join by a work colleague. They’re quite open about a lot, really I used to gentle take the piss out of him for it when I’d drop him off for his meetings. His lodge would have their meeting and then sit about having a drink and putting the world to rights. I’d compare it to scouts for grownups. I still have his badges and regalia. He enjoyed it and I’m glad he had it really. Currently now it’s more of an age thing, it tends to be an older blokes game. Younger men I know who are masons are so because their dads are or were, not always, but the ones I know are. Locally to me, more younger men join the Round Table first as a precursor to joining the masons. They do a heck of a lot for charity in my area, and are closely tied to the WI in my village. 2 weeks ago they came around with Father Christmas on a float collecting for charity. But it’s quite common in the Village for most families to have a tie one way or another to the Masons.
I've been a member in Scotland since 1989. Back then it took about a year to get in from being proposed and seconded and submitting the application, my enquiry interview before the committee, and my First Degree. Five of us went through all our degrees together.
Yes its still a thing.
Some of the biggest wankers I've met are free masons.
Family members have been Masons. Got invited to join. Sounds boring as fuck. Bunch of old men drinking in a bar. Fancy pub with a dress code.
It's very secrative until you go to Airdrie, then it's in your face and unfortunately you can't escape it.
Unless of course you leave Airdrie, which I'd advise.
Are you confusing freemasonry and the orange order just because both use the term "lodge"?
What are you on about?
I'm from Airdrie and have no idea what he's on about.
I’ve never heard of Airdrie and have even less idea what he’s going on about
There’s still a big scene. I live near a Freemasons.
Only to freemasons.
Not a mason myself and only have the most passing of interest, but i've known two friends who have been masons (one joined at the behest of the other).
It seems like it's a rapidly aging organisation desperate for new members, where you spend an enormous amount of time having dinners and making speeches. Part of this also seems to involve spending quite a lot of money on other masons, with the understanding that they'll pay you back in future, much like 'getting your round in'. I didn't see or hear a huge amount of this fabled 'doing each other a favour' thing, although i'm sure it's a decent place to network, and if you can network well then i'm sure you can make friends who will do favours for you anywhere you go.
I can't stress enough the part about 'rapidly aging'. I had a flick through one of the magazines my mate had lying around and there were several adverts for stair lifts, dentures, that kind of thing. As far as i'm aware, neither of the aforementioned friends are in the masons anymore either - it's a 'membership for life' situation, but if you don't pay your membership dues you don't get to attend the gatherings so it's more or less a resignation until you fork up the money. I don't know if that money is backdated or if it's capped either, but neither friend has masonic debt collectors coming after them.
What I can recommend is the masonic building in Holborn (London), which is open to the public and has some nice art in. Good place to spend a couple hours.
That’s a load on nonsense, and doesn’t make any sense (why give someone money to have them pay it back in the future?).
What does often happen is word of mouth recommendations. A fellow Mason is a builder and did our living room because people had to recommend him. It’s no different to what might happen between members of a Pub Darts team.
There are lots and lots of ‘chapters’ if you like, but many of those will consolidate in the coming years. This is arguably a good thing though, as a lodge’s success is largely determined by the quality of its members. This is why externally it can be seen as sometimes difficult to get in - lodges want to find people with common morals who will gel with existing members. Good people who feel inspired to do good. There’s a lot of misinformation by non members, even here in the comments. You don’t typically get ‘invited’ to join, more you will be asked if you want to come for some drinks first. It’s a chance to see if you like hanging out with each other. Then if you want to join, you should ask. It’s not a secret society, rather an organisation that doesn’t want to divulge to the general public some information - for example, I can say we give to charity, but its not appropriate to say how much each member gave.
It’s essentially a social club with a strong charitable aspect that meets a few times a year. There is a bit of traditional ceremony in each formal meeting, then you go for a nice meal, then you go to the pub. Everyone gets something different out of it, some people like the tradition and history, others enjoy the sense of occasion, some like me who enjoy the fact you meet people outside of your normal social circles. If you want you can take additional responsibilities, someone is usually appointed to check on the old folks, someone else to coordinate charitable works etc. You are always encouraged to visit other lodges and make new friends. As people get older, they can get lonelier. This system makes that impossible, there’s always someone to look forward to seeing again. It’s why good lodges range from uni students up to centenarians.
Are there bad actors in freemasonry? Likelihood is there might indeed be some in an organisation with over 235,000 members. But we hope the joining process weeds them out. As per before, a good lodge is made from good people.
I’m a mason!
Is it easy to get into in the modern day? Absolutely you literally enter your stuff on the website
I recommend it, it’s really nice for community and charity. It’s the biggest non-government charity in the country too
Sounds like you are having fun :) is there any interactions with the Freemason clubs abroad?
Still from a Satanic root with the ultimate big secret that's revealed being that they actually serve, proclaim and worship Lucifer (the devil).
https://preview.redd.it/k7qmtfe0bn8g1.png?width=480&format=png&auto=webp&s=566b681bbfc40500207528f493079d61fdc39064
It used to be that you had to be a freemason to move up in the police force. Is that no longer a thing?
Block across the road is one.
Considered it, but you have to believe in an almighty power .. and as an Atheist .. that doesn’t work.
I was considered for joining the buffs though
Nope. Anyone asking is clearly not drinking in the right clubs.
I just did a funeral for a former Freemason and I can confirm it’s absolutely still a thing
He got a guard of honour and they all did a little hand gesture as his coffin passed. They were wearing their necklaces and everything. Gave me great amusement.
From the two masons I know and seeing a stand trying to recruit at a beer festival I went to, I think it’s going through a bit of a crisis at the moment, and a bit like Soho house - anyone can join really.
Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do, we do
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do, we do
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do, we do
Who robs cavefish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do, we do
Look up Milton Keynes. The whole town's layout has masonic references.
I was invited as I was in the process of joining the Police quite some time ago. I rejected the approach for various reasons.
One of the conditions mentioned at the time was that you had to believe in a religion (it didn’t matter which but you had to have a religious belief). In my opinion this may have been a requirement to ensure ones mind is impressionable, and you are willing to suspend logic and facts to believe in a well crafted narrative instead.
I long ago chose to take the red pill.
Loads of lodges in SW London.
My ex’s dad was a free mason. Sounded more like a charity thing with a lot of social gatherings. I think he did learn the handshake but he always downplayed it as he did find it all a bit silly but you get real good connections with it