I'd like to get the opinion of an educator on this one.
I'm in my late 30s, and in the last 10 years I've seen a major drop-off in the communication and problem-solving abilities of my colleagues in their 20s.
Specifically:
They can't read paragraphs - everything I communicate is in punch lists now because if there's a sentence between two others, there's a 50% chance it's just not being read.
They can't write - they've got poor spelling, poor grammar, and no capability of organizing their thoughts into a coherent message or email. I either get word spam with no paragraphs, just a HUGE BLOCK of text, or literally zero attempt to write things out.
They can't follow verbal instructions. When they receive information verbally, they catch maybe 30% of it, then blame you for "not explaining it right."
Their computer skills are atrocious - I am constantly having to explain what a directory is, what a file is, how to use spellcheck.
They've got a litany of excuses - ADD, autism, dyslexia - but I don't get those same excuses from coworkers who are 30+. And honestly, I really don't think it's always mental illness or struggling with being non-neurotypical. It's like they were allowed every excuse growing up... then they're surprised when people give them side-eye in a professional workplace for putting that on others.
It wasn't a professional colleague, but a friend in his mid-20s who didn't know the difference between "wifi" and "internet." I tried explaining. He let me go on in silence for five minutes, then told me he lost me literally seconds in because of "his dyslexia." This kid can't even spell basic words.
I got frustrated and explained that if I had lost him verbally, the expectation for an adult is to stop me and politely ask for clarification - not let me continue for minutes. He got angry and told me, "This is the problem with teachers," and "This is the problem with professors." His expectation was that I check in every 30 seconds or so to see if he understood. He said this was why all of his teachers and professors sucked.
As an adult, I don't feel the need to do 30-second check-ins when I'm explaining something, especially something as simple as the difference between wifi and internet.
I truly feel that our young adults are struggling with basic reading and writing skills. They're often not capable of following linear instructions, nor explaining or digesting information in that way.
I feel like attention spans are obliterated. Critical thinking, problem-solving, and media literacy are at an all-time low. And although I'm in a male-dominated field, I'm seeing a HUGE gap between young men and women. I'd say this is 2–3× worse for my male colleagues vs. female ones.
What the heck is going on? Am I imagining this? Is this something you all are seeing too?
Thank god someone else is noticing this problem other than teachers. We’ve been screaming this at the top of our lungs to parents and anyone that will listen for the past 5 years. Kids do NOT care anymore. And it’s because their parents don’t give a f either. They fail 3rd grade? Who cares? The parents don’t even bother looking at their report cards anymore. lol
They need to bring back letter grades again. Honestly, when I saw a public elementary report card for the first time a few years ago I was so confused.
We didn’t have letter grades in my school in the 90s either. K-3 is just about learning to read and arithmetic. I think it was U, N, S (unsatisfactory, needs improvement, satisfactory)… or something like that.
A B+ vs an A- is kinda meaningless at that level.
K-5 in the 90s in my area did 1-4. 1 was D-F, 4 was basically an A. Most kids got 3-4 and anything lower was considered really bad. I would've been mortified to get a 2 or god forbid a 1. Kids would hide report cards etc so their parents didn't see their bad grades because getting in trouble actually meant something.
I teach 3rd now and my first year we did letter grades. We just switched to the 1-4 system last year due to the district pushing it and a majority of my class is in the 1-2 range. They don't care. At most, they get grounded for a few days and that's it. Nothing changes. They don't try harder. They don't get held back. It's a slap in the wrist and nothing more.
I will say, I saw a lot more concern from the students when we did letter grades. 1-4 can be confusing because they see the 1 and think 1st place is a good thing (even though we have posters saying what the numbers mean) and out just overall doesn't have the same impact as an F.
School making a difference when parents aren’t involved will always be the exception rather than the rule.
It’s kind of demotivating, but there’s a lot of room for improvement in the middle. Kids with average parents and average intelligence who can be put in the right environment and taught well.
But we’re in a decades long experiment to see if just passing kids and accommodating any sort of behavior (at the expense of the middle) will lead to better outcomes. Except we’re not even pretending to measure the post-graduate outcomes, we’re just inflating graduation or grade advancement rates and calling it a success…
Our county did letter grades beginning in third grade. I was teaching then and had kids in the school system.
Yeah, I wasn’t trying to speak for everyone. Just saying it’s not a new development or attempt to hide their progress, necessarily.
I was defining it as an early grade thing, but not all elementary grades.
Oh, right. Thanks.
No worries
At my school we do letter grades in 3-6
Do they also put their heads down when something is difficult and refuse to answer when asked a question? Do they have bullshit reasons why they need to leave? Do they attempt to get you to do everything for them? Do they think just being there is the limit of their responsibility? How can these kids function?
Not exaggerating - yes to all of your hypotheticals. And, unfortunately they're legal "adults" by the time that get to me. I know many people in their 20's who are children, intellectually and emotionally.
I see no catching-up for them. They're not viable for any skilled work - they're missing huge parts of elementary education from basic reading/writing to mental math... etc. When they DO end up in a role they're emotion-driven, narcissistic, and won't admit to what they know/don't know -- AI has made this so much worse.
This is the kind of real life stuff we teachers have feared. I’m shocked but not surprised.
Yeah I think there could be a role for adult education at least maths and English maybe around 25-30 because clearly if they are struggling we need to readdress it
There’s a reason most people used to do manual, rote labor for the majority of history. There are natural role divisions among us, to some degree. We ought to pay livable, not just survivable, wages for those less skilled jobs but otherwise…they served a vital function beyond their basic results. They gave the less intellectually gifted a purpose and functional path in life.
Yeah we as a society are really set on the idea that anyone can do anything if they put their mind to it when, in fact, there are plenty of people that don’t have any sort of cognitive disability but just aren’t that smart. They’re perfectly capable of retail, factory work, construction, even most trades, and all of those jobs are essential to the economy and should pay living wages and not be looked down upon because they don’t require a 4-year degree and have master’s or PhD potential. I absolutely need a good car mechanic, I absolutely don’t need my car mechanic to have a bachelor’s degree.
I think this question misses the single biggest issue behind why all this is happening. These kids haven't learned any useful life skills because they've never had to.
How are they functioning? Just fine. They don't do any work, don't try in school, immediately give up if anything requires the least bit of effort, and then get passed along to the next grade anyway. They don't know or care what their grades are, because it's never been relevant to them and their parents either don't check or don't care. Plenty of parents are perfectly happy so long as their kid keeps passing to the next grade and they don't get calls from the school.
So it is really that surprising that they never learned to apply themselves or do anything when they never had to, at all? I've been out of teaching for a couple years, but when I was in it, I knew that I'd be getting a serious chewing out if I failed any kid with an IEP or a 504 or behavior plan or was an ELL, since they'd given us ludicrous and impossible requirements for all the hoops we had to jump through before failing any of those students (including managing to get one of their parents on the phone repeatedly). And since 80% of my students fell into at least one of those buckets, I basically didn't bother to fail anyone. I knew anyone I did fail would just spend two weeks in summer "grade recovery" hanging out with their friends doing nothing and that fail would become a pass.
And then our administration has the gall to brag about a 99.9% graduation rate.
So I think a huge part of the issue is that their parents are so permissive, and their teachers are so handcuffed and overworked, that the students spend their entire education never once having to do anything and never seeing any consequences from it.
A lot of this is just the good times create weak men and terrible times create strong men. We well probably see a difference when unemployment rate is high and there parents aren’t around, parents are working longer and many of them want to and if you buy a house 20 years ago you could make money on rentals now.
Life is just too easy with ChatGPT etc.
Kids think they’re going to be streamers or athletes. When I pointed out that they would still need reading and math skills, a student told me they’d just pay someone…or that their mom would do it for them.
I had a 12th grader tell me once everything he needed was in his phone and I told him that all that information doesn't mean anything if he doesn't know what to do with it.
Yep. And we’re seeing it out in society. Basic reading, writing, and social etiquette are gone.
I don’t even blame schools or the educational system. They’re just a reflection of the communities they are in. I blame a combination of parenting, technology, and a decline in American culture as a whole.
Thank you for your balanced comment. I think opportunities to solve this are lost when teachers just blanket blame parents and parents just blanket blame schools and technology.
This is a wider societal problem we should be working on together.
Yes it’s all of our problems. It began when we took public money from public schools and began funneling it into private schools. Home schooling should not be treated equally in the eyes of the government as public and parochial schooling.
Smartphones, social media, tic toc, insta, snapchat- have absolutely destroyed the ability to think in current generation of Americans between the ages of 15 and 20. AI is going continue and accelerate that. They are not ok.
6th grade isn't any better and from what I hear, 5th grade is worse.
You’re right. I should edit my comment to all ages below 20.
I am in my 40’s and my age group is not much better. As a matter of fact, they are the parents of these little preciouses that lie and act out without any consequences.
Unfortunately they realize very early that technology gives them work arounds for a lot of reading and writing tasks. I would prefer to see a lot less Chromebook use for ELA, especially in elementary school. Learning to write and spell manually, reading and discussing books etc build important neuro pathways. I think there is still a place for old school phonics, spelling lists, dictation, hand written essays, etc.
People raised on cellphones don't have computer skills unless they're gamers or enthusiasts building their own PCs. Phone-first people have never had to learn to type or use a mouse.
I learned to type in high school on electric typewriters. I'd bet people in their 20s are hunt-and-peck at best.
Kids are not tech savvy, they are game savvy. And they think that in everything they do, they get unlimited lives.
I’m not sure about high schoolers-college-headed into the workforce but I can tell you that my 7th graders inability to do anything for themselves, have an attention span, follow simple prompts, remember anything, or spell, is terrifying.
Read simple instructions. Anything more than one sentence is too hard. I taught theatre, they’d bitch and moan about not doing plays but when I told them they had to memorize lines they didn’t want to do it anymore. If it isn’t mastered in 5 minutes, they don’t want to do it.
The kids are not ok. Check out Loading… Education Not Found. It’s free on kindle unlimited and will explain a lot about the current education system and this generation.
Jumping into the book now :) thanks for the rec!
The kids are not alright. The problem is that most of them and their parents don't care.
Education has become 60% parenting, and anything that their child fails at or doesn't complete is the teacher's fault.
Everyone has a self-diagnosed medical or mental health issue, which is their excuse for all their shortcomings. No one accepts responsibility for their behaviors or actions.
College freshmen and sophomores write like 6th graders. Everyone is afraid to think or be an individual.
It all begins at home. Many parents are abdicating parenting to technology. I have seen babies given smart phones to play with to keep them entertained. Technology has wired the brain for instant gratification and rewards. Children have not learned to sit within their own thoughts nor how to deal with boredom. Families are not eating meals together and talking, they are all on their phones. Children are not being read to, encouraged to read, nor witnessing their parents read books. If you read enough of the teacher threads, you will discover the increasing group of kindergarteners that are not potty trained. So much of what we observing now with our students (high school for me) began at home. I teach all levels for high school biology. Handwriting is a lost art, including printing. Students struggle to read, have a very limited vocabulary, and have little desire to learn. Out of 125 students, I can name 2 that I routinely I see reading a book for pleasure. If permitted, students would have an ear bud in their ear, 24-7 with music blaring. During transition, the majority of students are on their phones swiping through content (tik tok) or texting. Poll people about the time phone time. It is amazing to me the double digits hours a student spends on their phone. Walk through a grocery store and observe the number of people that are on their phones. They cannot be quiet within themselves, even to complete simple activities. It is depressing.
I'm still in school but I've noticed this too and it's frustrating. For the record, I do have autism, ADHD, dyslexia and dyspraxia (all diagnosed pre16 and then reevaluated last year).
I am sitting my a-levels and its meant to be a group of high achieving young people in each of my classes but its just not. Why are these people unable to do very basic, mental arithmetic? I struggle to read and spell, but I try to make accommodations for myself for that (e.g., a different colour background helps me, zooming in, etc.) It's my responsibility to help myself with it, no one elses. People who are just lazy don't make it easier for themselves, if they do genuinely have a problem with it.
I type my exams instead of writing them because I have low dexterity (again diagnosed) but I taught myself how to use all of the servers I need, because it is MY responsibility. Other people expect it spoonfed to them, and its irritating.
The critical thinking is non-existent. They don't understand anything, unless explicitly told. It's pathetic and just not good enough. They'll fail their exams and then complain, because they've never been told they can't do something before.
Part of me wants to blame COVID specifically with my cohort of students, but it is the parents + the "parenting style" that is raising iPad kids.
I mean a part of teaching is explicitly teaching things and not to expect critical thinking.
Being able to breakdown tasks to it's simplest forms
maybe for younger students but not for 17/18 year olds (imho)
Younger students for sure, but it varies depending on each students ability
No they are not. We have decided to make education a competition and that has led many parents, teachers, administration and even government agencies to take the easiest way through the system. The way we play academics leads us to push as many people through in dubious ways. This looks like parents strong arming the teacher to be more lienant or bargain for grades. It also looks like schools not having the resources to allow kids to repeat classes. Instead the books are cooked and kids move on even though they failed the majority of assessments in any given class.
Kids know this and their indifference and engagement in this dubious game is just an emulation of the adult in their life.
The kids are not alright.
I'm terrified when I see people graduating high school who are functionally illiterate. Was literally just reading an article yesterday that UC Davis (I think) has more incoming freshmen in remedial math classes, to the point that they had to create MORE remedial math classes to accommodate them. It's not just reading/writing.
It's critical thinking, objective analysis, reading/interpreting data. Crazy.
You'd think for how much time they spent on electronics they'd be able to navigate a computer pretty well.
It’s almost like teaching to a standardized test made children hate education.
I’ve worked in education for 20 years. Virtually no teachers I’m in contact with teach to a standardized test. If they did the outcomes would probably be better.
Must be nice...I have to teach to a objective test. I'm an ELA teacher and there is no writing or critical thinking involved.
You are spot on. Data-driven education is the root of it. My students don't get bothered when I tell them they have an "assessment" at the beginning of the block (period).
Crazy how that happened. Who could have predicted that?
It's not all of them. But there is a problem. Realistically, a lot of problems.
Trying to track down all of the sources of the problems is a fool's errand. The dopamine-addiction-causing media has caused problems. Generation X - a generation of kids who were largely unparented, and as a result don't know how to be good parents - having kids has caused problems. Overcompensating for past educational deficits - notably regarding people with ADHD and Autism - has caused problems. Chronic underfunding of schools has caused problems. Goodhart's Law applied to standardized testing, grades, extracurricular activities, and anything else the college testing industry can find that might possibly be interesting has caused problems. Politicians wanting solutions now to get them reelected, even if the solutions aren't actually solutions has caused problems. EdTech and other corporate interests trying to extract as much of the education budget has cause problems. People with strong political and moral beliefs trying to force them wholesale on schools has caused problems. Our rapidly changing world has caused problems.
And like every other problem in our society, it hit women first, and society didn't care, so women figured out solutions. And then when it hit men, women helped them out for a bit, until the problems got so onerous that women couldn't help men, and let men fend for themselves - except by then, the problem was so much worse and so men had less time to solve a bigger problem. Which means that, right now, as far as education goes, women are -fine-. Which is to say, they're suffering, but at least they have tools to make it work. And they're teaching those tools to their daughters (and when they'll listen, their sons - but sons are more likely to listen to their fathers, and their fathers don't have those tools).
to me it seems less like the problem hit women first, and more that the expectations for girls and women did not allow them to eschew accountability the same way boys and men have. girls are still held to high behavioral, social and academic expectations from a very young age, even if they’re getting much less support from parents now
It’s probably our food getting worse and technology.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. Environmental factors, like the availability and quality of food, 100% is playing a role.
Must’ve bounced back I have some upvotes now lol
I’m actually noticing the reading comprehension and staying on topic issues here on Reddit too. And like you, it’s mostly in the males.
When high schools are “scored” based on their graduation rate rather than academics, this is what we get. The students who fail classes get to have a “Study hall” with an advisor, and “given the work” that they have not done all semester to pass the class. I kid you not. Personally, I think kids should be able to fail when they make poor choices.
At our highschool, there are no short answer questions on tests. Not even fill in the blank. Everything is multiple choice, unless you're AP or Honors. I'm not in Literature and Composition courses, so I can't imagine how frustrated those teachers must be. Just speaking from a science and history perspective, I can't explain anything using two or more sentences without several students checking out mentally.
Our graduation rate is above 95%. If you want to know why business wants to get their hands in education, now you know.
I'm autistic. I can read and spell; my ACT reading subscore was 36/36, and I've competed in spelling bees at the state level. A few of my creative writings have been published. I also like to think that my problem-solving skills are up to snuff. Given, I have low support needs, but I still think it's ridiculous to blame young people's learned helplessness on disability alone. It's rather offensive how many kids will attribute their intellectual laziness to neurodivergence... Like, no. Your disability doesn't make you a slack-off. Your disability might make things more difficult, but you have chosen ignorance for yourself.
As an autistic teacher, the things that I struggle with most are tolerating the high-pitched whine of the furnace, the screechy flourescent lights, and the students' constant chatter. It's difficult to focus my attention on the conversation in front of me because I can't easily filter irrelevant noise. I also struggle to grade when I have students in the room because transitions are the bane of my existence... I can't split my focus, so if a student approaches to ask me a question, it takes a bit of effort to return to what I was doing previously.
But I can read a damn paragraph. I can follow directions and ask for clarification—rather than asking for the information to be spoon-fed. The students' refusal to engage their brains is not the fault of disability. For most, the reason is learned helplessness, and it's driving me batty!
Honesty haven’t see this - we have hired quite a few young men as teachers and they are quick and sharp and communicate well.
Just to be clear, I'm not talking about teachers - I'm talking about students, and people exiting education from late 2010's to current time.
There's extra scrutiny placed on teaching and I'd imagine this is less of a problem in that industry.
Why am I getting downvoted for this clarification when it's clear the above commenter didn't read the post? Where the context was clear that I was talking about students entering industry (and not specifically about young teachers)?
The requirements for becoming teachers would weed out the ones that have these issues. Where I'm from, it's a 4 year undergrad + 2 years of teacher's college. And the teacher's college program is pretty competitive, so you need to do well in your undergrad. If you're one of the kids that can't read or spell or follow instructions for more than 30 seconds, it would be extremely difficult to get both degrees.
It's the low-skilled labour force that's in for a reckoning. The dam is about to break with high school "graduates" that were just passed along regardless of performance. We're seeing the first waves of a tsunami that's going to last for at least the next decade, and take years to recover from.
People aren't connecting the dots that SARS2 infections literally cause brain damage. It's also cumulative, so it's imperative to mitigate by taking precautions.
This is not what the issue is.
How can you say that?
This is true, but this trend was happening well before COVID. Read The Knowledge Gap by Natalie Wexler or listen to Sold a Story and you'll have a little more context.