Things are just reported in the most sensationalist way possible. The goal is to rile everybody up, generate clicks, get more paid subscribers, etc.
Always, in every story your read, there is a "truth" that is far less sensationalist. It's boring in comparison. Because, more and more I continue to learn, that the framing of a story its more important/manipulative than the actual story itself.
In this case, the DOJ did provide a 6 page letter to congress explaining their redactions (I'm willing to bet little to none of the people reading this know that). The letter explains that there is common law that the DOJ has to follow that overrides some of the orders the transparency act. They site the appropriate cases that set such precedent. On top of protecting victims, this includes things related to national security, ongoing cases, legal privilege, etc.
Well, no. The doj is specifically arguing that Congress can't order the doj to stop following common law, such as protecting attorney client privilege, protecting national security, etc.
They also specifically wrote in the law all redactions needed an explanation, as well as not redacting any other names due to embarrassment or political sensitivity
Do you have a link to the letter? My understanding is that thr explanations are supposed to be much more granular than that - As in theyre supposed to give a reason why each specific redaction was made.
What is "supposed" to happen is entirely up in the air. This is not how the DOJ is supposed to function.
The DOJ opens an investigation and gathers a ton of information. If they don't have enough evidence to prosecute anybody, the evidence is filed away. It's not released to the public where people assess the evidence based on emotion in order to encourage witch hunts. This is ENTIRELY without precedent, and not how our doj is supposed to operate.
What's very strange here is we have the Dems pushing to release the files. In doing so they're unintentionally accusing the Biden Admin of covering up the epstein files. That's literally the accusation. Because if there was evidence of complicity, the Biden admin had 4 years to realease these files and is LITERALLY complicit in the coverup.
What is "supposed" to happen is entirely up in the air. This is not how the DOJ is supposed to function
Its what's supposed to happen under the Epstein Transparency act. As conservatives like to say, "this is the will of the people".
What's very strange here is we have the Dems pushing to release the files. In doing so they're unintentionally accusing the Biden Admin of covering up the epstein files. That's literally the accusation. Because if there was evidence of complicity, the Biden admin had 4 years to realease these files and is LITERALLY complicit in the coverup.
Sure, and the inverse of this is the Trump admin campaigned on releasing the epstein files and accused Biden of covering up this giant ring. But as soon as Trump got into power they changed their toon and claimed that the Epstein files are just a Democrat hoax. You cant pount out the hypocrisy of the democrats and pretend like the Republicans aren't also being giant hypocrites.
So you dont have a link to the DOJ letter youre claiming exists?
Its what's supposed to happen under the Epstein Transparency act. As conservatives like to say, "this is the will of the people".
That's the debate, isn't it? Does congress have the power to tell the doj to stop protecting peoples rights regarding things like attorney client privilege? The doj argues they don't.
Sure, and the inverse of this is the Trump admin campaigned on releasing the epstein files and accused Biden of covering up this giant ring. But as soon as Trump got into power they changed their toon and claimed that the Epstein files are just a Democrat hoax. You cant pount out the hypocrisy of the democrats and pretend like the Republicans aren't also being giant hypocrites.
Yeah, this is how it goes. Whichever party DOESN'T hold power screams about the Epstein files. Whichever party does hold power tries to hide them.
But I just want to be absolutely clear. If the Dems are arguing that the files are FULL of incriminating behavior, then the Dems were complicit in the coverup from 2021-2024. No amount of spin, lies, or rhetoric will change that.
So you dont have a link to the DOJ letter youre claiming exists?
Wait a second... so you have these strong opinions on the matter, and you aren't even aware of the DOJ's letter rationalizing their redactions? I can't even find them any longer. I read it on X. I can only find page 2 which you can read here, and this is where they explain how congress can't order them to ignore common law like attorney/client privilege.
1) i have tried for the last 30 minutes to find this 6 page letter youre talking about. It was either filed under seal or something, or doesnt exist (seriously, if you have a link, i would love to read this letter). The closest i could find publicly is a vauge 1pg fact sheet on X put out by thr DOJ. Either way, its SHADY. If there was a strong defence for these redactions republicans would be shouting them from the rooftops.
2) The whole "Well Biden is just as bad!" narrative is a false equivalence at best because LETS BE HONEST. If Biden had released anything bad or incriminating about Trump, Trump would have just cried Hoax, Fake News, TDS, and the right would have attacked Biden for subverting the DOJ to go after his politicsl enemies for the rest of his term. I mean, its what they all yelled for Trumps OTHER CRIMES.
Beyond that it was TRUMPS people, during his first term who were the ones that signed sweetheart deals keeping the feds from investigating. From a federal perspective the matter was then done, even if it was fucked and unjust. Also, Biden didnt treat the DOJ as his personal attack dogs since, before Trump, presidents were generally expected not to interfere with "Justice".
Either way, its SHADY. If there was a strong defence for these redactions republicans would be shouting them from the rooftops.
They are. It just doesn't reach your bubble.
The whole "Well Biden is just as bad!" narrative is a false equivalence at best because LETS BE HONEST.
I'm honestly dumbfounded right now. You've resorted to saying "Yeah, the BIden admin helped cover up the rampant abuse against children... but let's be honest, it would be bad optics for them to release them." Yeah, that sure is a great excuse to be complicit in the coverup against children. Sure makes sense.
1) Show me the defence then? Ive tried to find it in your bubble and couldn't find it there either. So far youre boasting about cards that dont seem to exist.
Edit: I dont think the letter doesnt exist actually, i just think that if its being hidden, its wxcuses are probably bullshit
2) Biden didnt help cover up anything. He pretty explicitly wasnt invovled in DOJ shit. Dude had enough to deal with without trying to overturn court seals to re-open cases that werent his job.
Now if youre saying he SHOULD have been, my point is that if the goal is to get justice agaisnt the perpetrators, and Donald Trump is implicated in the crimes, then yes, releasing info when the entire right wing establishment would have done everything possible to undermine the investigstion (in order to save their golden boy) and then use it as fodder to put one of the men accused into the presidency, it would not make sense. It would be counter-productive.
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They’ve also failed to redact some victims’ names; at least one woman said she was horrified to see her name unredacted in the files. They’re working real hard to protect those 10 co-conspirators but not the people who actually need to be protected.
Congress should take the chance to reassert control over the presidency. If the president is going to wield the financial power that biden trump and obama have been using than congress needs to hold them legally responsible for every time they break the law. Even purgery. And we need to go back to holding their advisors accountable too.
If the admin doesn’t want people to play conspiracy theatre, maybe don’t botch redactions so badly that it leaves things up in the air.
If you are caught redacting Trumps name from the documents when Kash has to Congress stated he’s not in them, and Bondi says he isn’t in them. Then they say mentions of him are fake but mentions of anyone else like Clinton are real then you as an admin are absolutely just hanging by your own noose since you borked the redaction so much you put your entire statement on the line.
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Good action, I think, is a good thing. The whole point of freedom of speech and press is to keep the government accountable, even if they make a mistake. It allows the public to critique and publicly force the government to adapt to mistakes rather than hide behind suppression.
It's great. Shouldn't have been redacted to begin with. But I guess if they have to be a bunch of crooks, it's preferable for them to at least be incompetent crooks.
Everyone in the government who improperly redacted files should be fired, along with their supervisors. This is a travesty of incompetence which cannot be tolerated.
It is way, way to ******* easy to redact a pdf to let this slide.
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It doesn't really matter. Even if all the files were released, 100% unredacted, there will still be accusations that they selectively held some files back.
The people who predicted they would selectively hold back information are currently being vindicated. You’re arguing about the potential reactions of people in a scenario that does not exist.
This entire administration is suffering in general with a very poor reputation for honesty, that's before you look at how many blatant lies specific to the Epstein files have been told already.
Let's be real many (not all but many) of the unmasked redactions are not protecting the victims at all, they are protecting anyone else but the victims.
Did you answer the question with a question?
I think the redactions and gaslighting speaks for itself. Apparently the DOJ is currently spamming on X about how Trump incriminating evidence is fake.
My thoughts are, now the worry is how suddenly the left, only worry about redactions, BUT not the 4 years that under the democrats, they didn’t release anything!
The files were sealed under the DOJ as Maxwell kept appealing. I’m so tired of the partisan shit. This is a criminal sex trafficking operation that involves plenty of powerful and wealthy people who are working our government hard to keep the details covered up so they can avoid accountability and justice that we should all want them to face for the horrific things they’ve done to children. Our primary focus as a country should be exposing this and getting that accountability and justice for the victims, while ensuring the people involved or who are now covering it up can’t get near our government with a hundred foot pole.
Why would Biden attempt to break the law to release the files? Unless of course he was trying to weaponize the DOJ? I guess another point against that claim.
He didn't have to break the law to release the files. As I said, they weren't sealed his entire term. And even when they were, he could have filed a petition to release them but didn't. Stop making excuses for the double standards.
Yes, but on Reddit I don't really need to address that, because even the most minimal missteps by any Republican are touted all over Reddit, in every sub, even subs that aren't supposed to be about politics, like r/pics
I can only imagine the keyboard clicks of thousands of MAGA supporters taking to facebook/twitter/foxnews claiming weaponization of the DOJ for releasing files in an active investigation that may make Trump look like the rapist that he is right before an election...
Maybe Democrats arent the evil crew they are made out to be?
That’s Bs and you know it. You are assuming republicans support pedo’s and your insults are pathetic. Because then you quote “illegal” but those legalities didn’t stay the course, and if you believe they did, how did the republicans get them released? You pick your points to make an argument but ignore anything you do not like. I suggest you re read the question which is what I was answering. Redacting is also to protect the innocent (that can always be debated) and there are plenty of laws there too but when an error is made in redacting a victim, which is shameful but is inevitable in this current “hurry” to indict Trump TDS syndrome.
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None of it should have been released redacted. Anyone whose name is blocked out, that is not a victim, needs to be called out.
EDIT: Thank you for the award.
The transparency act from Congress ask that any redactions have explanations…….. it’s wild this hasn’t been called out more.
Things are just reported in the most sensationalist way possible. The goal is to rile everybody up, generate clicks, get more paid subscribers, etc.
Always, in every story your read, there is a "truth" that is far less sensationalist. It's boring in comparison. Because, more and more I continue to learn, that the framing of a story its more important/manipulative than the actual story itself.
In this case, the DOJ did provide a 6 page letter to congress explaining their redactions (I'm willing to bet little to none of the people reading this know that). The letter explains that there is common law that the DOJ has to follow that overrides some of the orders the transparency act. They site the appropriate cases that set such precedent. On top of protecting victims, this includes things related to national security, ongoing cases, legal privilege, etc.
Who are the coconspirators and why are they redacted? Why did they redact Trump's name?
If they don't relate directly to Epstein's crimes, then they are literally none of our business.
Hey, if they’re listed in the files it supposed to be released unredacted according to the law
Well, no. The doj is specifically arguing that Congress can't order the doj to stop following common law, such as protecting attorney client privilege, protecting national security, etc.
They also specifically wrote in the law all redactions needed an explanation, as well as not redacting any other names due to embarrassment or political sensitivity
That's the six page letter the doj wrote to congress. It layed out the common law they were redacting and cited cases that set such precedents.
You think a six page letter accurately explains hundreds of pages of redactions?
Not what the transparency act states.
Yes but the DOJ has argued that congress can't order the DOJ to break common law, such as attorney client privilege, etc.
Do you have a link to the letter? My understanding is that thr explanations are supposed to be much more granular than that - As in theyre supposed to give a reason why each specific redaction was made.
What is "supposed" to happen is entirely up in the air. This is not how the DOJ is supposed to function.
The DOJ opens an investigation and gathers a ton of information. If they don't have enough evidence to prosecute anybody, the evidence is filed away. It's not released to the public where people assess the evidence based on emotion in order to encourage witch hunts. This is ENTIRELY without precedent, and not how our doj is supposed to operate.
What's very strange here is we have the Dems pushing to release the files. In doing so they're unintentionally accusing the Biden Admin of covering up the epstein files. That's literally the accusation. Because if there was evidence of complicity, the Biden admin had 4 years to realease these files and is LITERALLY complicit in the coverup.
Its what's supposed to happen under the Epstein Transparency act. As conservatives like to say, "this is the will of the people".
Sure, and the inverse of this is the Trump admin campaigned on releasing the epstein files and accused Biden of covering up this giant ring. But as soon as Trump got into power they changed their toon and claimed that the Epstein files are just a Democrat hoax. You cant pount out the hypocrisy of the democrats and pretend like the Republicans aren't also being giant hypocrites.
So you dont have a link to the DOJ letter youre claiming exists?
That's the debate, isn't it? Does congress have the power to tell the doj to stop protecting peoples rights regarding things like attorney client privilege? The doj argues they don't.
Yeah, this is how it goes. Whichever party DOESN'T hold power screams about the Epstein files. Whichever party does hold power tries to hide them.
But I just want to be absolutely clear. If the Dems are arguing that the files are FULL of incriminating behavior, then the Dems were complicit in the coverup from 2021-2024. No amount of spin, lies, or rhetoric will change that.
Wait a second... so you have these strong opinions on the matter, and you aren't even aware of the DOJ's letter rationalizing their redactions? I can't even find them any longer. I read it on X. I can only find page 2 which you can read here, and this is where they explain how congress can't order them to ignore common law like attorney/client privilege.
https://x.com/RepThomasMassie/status/2002450386146435081
Strong opinions? What? I quite literally asked for a link to the letter in my first comment.
Then Trump should’ve vetoed the transparency act instead of signing it. But he did sign it so now he has to do what he agreed to.
He was left with no choice. People that don't understand the law (pretty much all of reddit) would literally lose their minds.
Maybe you should be blaming the creators of the nonsense bill? Why do they get a free pass?
Trump literally had a choice to veto but okay.
1) i have tried for the last 30 minutes to find this 6 page letter youre talking about. It was either filed under seal or something, or doesnt exist (seriously, if you have a link, i would love to read this letter). The closest i could find publicly is a vauge 1pg fact sheet on X put out by thr DOJ. Either way, its SHADY. If there was a strong defence for these redactions republicans would be shouting them from the rooftops.
2) The whole "Well Biden is just as bad!" narrative is a false equivalence at best because LETS BE HONEST. If Biden had released anything bad or incriminating about Trump, Trump would have just cried Hoax, Fake News, TDS, and the right would have attacked Biden for subverting the DOJ to go after his politicsl enemies for the rest of his term. I mean, its what they all yelled for Trumps OTHER CRIMES.
Beyond that it was TRUMPS people, during his first term who were the ones that signed sweetheart deals keeping the feds from investigating. From a federal perspective the matter was then done, even if it was fucked and unjust. Also, Biden didnt treat the DOJ as his personal attack dogs since, before Trump, presidents were generally expected not to interfere with "Justice".
They are. It just doesn't reach your bubble.
I'm honestly dumbfounded right now. You've resorted to saying "Yeah, the BIden admin helped cover up the rampant abuse against children... but let's be honest, it would be bad optics for them to release them." Yeah, that sure is a great excuse to be complicit in the coverup against children. Sure makes sense.
1) Show me the defence then? Ive tried to find it in your bubble and couldn't find it there either. So far youre boasting about cards that dont seem to exist. Edit: I dont think the letter doesnt exist actually, i just think that if its being hidden, its wxcuses are probably bullshit
2) Biden didnt help cover up anything. He pretty explicitly wasnt invovled in DOJ shit. Dude had enough to deal with without trying to overturn court seals to re-open cases that werent his job.
Now if youre saying he SHOULD have been, my point is that if the goal is to get justice agaisnt the perpetrators, and Donald Trump is implicated in the crimes, then yes, releasing info when the entire right wing establishment would have done everything possible to undermine the investigstion (in order to save their golden boy) and then use it as fodder to put one of the men accused into the presidency, it would not make sense. It would be counter-productive.
You have genuinely reached a point of cult brainwashing that is unfathomable to me. Like 10% of this country needs deprogramming.
The best solution to this would have been to not even "redact" victim names, but instead give them an alias.
Jane 1 Alice 1 Beth 1
That way it's extremely obvious what's being held back and you can't hide facts behind a black box.
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They’ve also failed to redact some victims’ names; at least one woman said she was horrified to see her name unredacted in the files. They’re working real hard to protect those 10 co-conspirators but not the people who actually need to be protected.
Congress should take the chance to reassert control over the presidency. If the president is going to wield the financial power that biden trump and obama have been using than congress needs to hold them legally responsible for every time they break the law. Even purgery. And we need to go back to holding their advisors accountable too.
Why do you think they are hesitant to do so?
I think if you release something that isn't properly redacted that's on you.
Pretty much sums things up.
If the admin doesn’t want people to play conspiracy theatre, maybe don’t botch redactions so badly that it leaves things up in the air.
If you are caught redacting Trumps name from the documents when Kash has to Congress stated he’s not in them, and Bondi says he isn’t in them. Then they say mentions of him are fake but mentions of anyone else like Clinton are real then you as an admin are absolutely just hanging by your own noose since you borked the redaction so much you put your entire statement on the line.
Whats more concerning the fact that we have so many unnecessary redactions or the incompetence in how they have been released?
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Do you think this administration is competent?
Good action, I think, is a good thing. The whole point of freedom of speech and press is to keep the government accountable, even if they make a mistake. It allows the public to critique and publicly force the government to adapt to mistakes rather than hide behind suppression.
It's great. Shouldn't have been redacted to begin with. But I guess if they have to be a bunch of crooks, it's preferable for them to at least be incompetent crooks.
All for it. You have a right to know.
In general I want more transparency from government, so I'm fine with that. I just hope nobody ends up unredacting the names of victims or CSAM.
They’ve already failed to redact at least one victim’s name, I’m not sure if there are others
Everyone in the government who improperly redacted files should be fired, along with their supervisors. This is a travesty of incompetence which cannot be tolerated.
It is way, way to ******* easy to redact a pdf to let this slide.
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It doesn't really matter. Even if all the files were released, 100% unredacted, there will still be accusations that they selectively held some files back.
The people who predicted they would selectively hold back information are currently being vindicated. You’re arguing about the potential reactions of people in a scenario that does not exist.
This entire administration is suffering in general with a very poor reputation for honesty, that's before you look at how many blatant lies specific to the Epstein files have been told already.
Boy who cried wolf is in full effect.
All it does is hurt the victims.
Aren't many of the Epstein survivors criticising the heavy redaction and slow release of files though?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/dec/22/reaction-limited-epstein-files-photos-us-politics-latest-updates
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cwyk526vlnlt
Let's be real many (not all but many) of the unmasked redactions are not protecting the victims at all, they are protecting anyone else but the victims.
Are co conspirators victims?
Maxwell and Epstein were the only people charged. What co conspirators are you talking about?
The ones mentioned in the files. At least 10 were referenced
Only two people were charged and convicted. Please tell me why things should not be redacted?
Do you believe co conspirators are victims?
Do you believe the Epstein case is a cover up?
Did you answer the question with a question? I think the redactions and gaslighting speaks for itself. Apparently the DOJ is currently spamming on X about how Trump incriminating evidence is fake.
I already gave my answer. It no co conspirators because only two people got charged and convicted. I don’t believe the Epstein case is a cover up.
You may not be aware - There are documents on the recently released files naming 10 co-conspirators. Their names are redacted.
How so?
The FBI said that there are 10 co conspirators, should we know their names?
My thoughts are, now the worry is how suddenly the left, only worry about redactions, BUT not the 4 years that under the democrats, they didn’t release anything!
The files were sealed under the DOJ as Maxwell kept appealing. I’m so tired of the partisan shit. This is a criminal sex trafficking operation that involves plenty of powerful and wealthy people who are working our government hard to keep the details covered up so they can avoid accountability and justice that we should all want them to face for the horrific things they’ve done to children. Our primary focus as a country should be exposing this and getting that accountability and justice for the victims, while ensuring the people involved or who are now covering it up can’t get near our government with a hundred foot pole.
How did you expect the Biden admin to release files that were part of an active investigation when it would be illegal to do so?
That was not true during all four years of Biden's presidency. On top of that, Biden didn't even attempt to release the files.
Why would Biden attempt to break the law to release the files? Unless of course he was trying to weaponize the DOJ? I guess another point against that claim.
The same man that said he needed congress to close the border. Laughable!
He didn't have to break the law to release the files. As I said, they weren't sealed his entire term. And even when they were, he could have filed a petition to release them but didn't. Stop making excuses for the double standards.
Do you call out Republican double standards when you see them?
Yes, but on Reddit I don't really need to address that, because even the most minimal missteps by any Republican are touted all over Reddit, in every sub, even subs that aren't supposed to be about politics, like r/pics
I can only imagine the keyboard clicks of thousands of MAGA supporters taking to facebook/twitter/foxnews claiming weaponization of the DOJ for releasing files in an active investigation that may make Trump look like the rapist that he is right before an election...
Maybe Democrats arent the evil crew they are made out to be?
That’s Bs and you know it. You are assuming republicans support pedo’s and your insults are pathetic. Because then you quote “illegal” but those legalities didn’t stay the course, and if you believe they did, how did the republicans get them released? You pick your points to make an argument but ignore anything you do not like. I suggest you re read the question which is what I was answering. Redacting is also to protect the innocent (that can always be debated) and there are plenty of laws there too but when an error is made in redacting a victim, which is shameful but is inevitable in this current “hurry” to indict Trump TDS syndrome.
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Trump campaigned on a Democrat hoax?
How can you possibly say that at this point
Have you not looked into this topic in the last few days?