It must suck to be a heterosexual male who hates and fears women. Just out there all "Feeeeemoids are evil icky yucky soul-devouring monsterpigs! Why don't they want to be with me?"
It really sounds exhausting. When I saw that one post crying that females were designed poorly and are dirty for having the vagina so close to the anus, I was like, Do you even like them?
Honestly probably still preferable to the straight woman prayer, “Hope this one doesn’t kill me.”
Honestly with how popular anal is with men that's not even a "design flaw" according to most of them. So which is it? Am I expected to do something I don't want to do to make a man stop whining and trying to pressure me, or should I feel deep shame for having a normal human body that I didn't get to design? Can they at least pick a lane?
I mean I feel like most guys or at least most I’ve known pick a lane. One sees you as the human you are and won’t pressure you, they may ask but if you say no won’t ask again and will focus on what they and you enjoy; the other sees women as tools for pleasure so they don’t care how many times they get rejected from it they keep asking until unfortunately a lot of women are put through pain by an uncaring lover.
Buddy if you can't handle a little bit of facetiousness when one of the "different opinions and sexual preferences" in question is literally finding it disgusting that your partner has a functioning human body that's on you
Lots of things about functioning human bodies are disgusting. It’s extremely poorly designed. Of course, that’s not anything anyone should be ashamed of, and anyone who tries to shame others for it is an asshole.
Basically that the women are not good wife material because of their past. At this point it can go multiple ways (most likely the default multiple sex-partners bullshit), but none of them are any good.
Oh, ok, I get it. In Spain nobody become Christian as an adult unless they are in a cult, but I understand that in USian culture some women who are tired of dating and want to marry may become more religious as a way to find a husband and Incels believe that they became religious to erase a big body count, isn't?
Oh, ok, I get it. In Spain nobody become Christian as an adult unless they are in a cult
That is also my experience, but from an account named "rise of sigma" you know that isn't the right explanation.
but I understand that in USian culture some women who are tired of dating and want to marry may become more religious as a way to find a husband
That is a way we can interpret Sigma's tweet, but I doubt that would be truly the case for majority of women who find religion in their thirties.
Incels believe that they became religious to erase a big body count, isn't?
More that these women have this body-count and therefor they are not marriage material. Another way you interpret it, it that incels truly believe women first want their "chad-phase" and are now settling for them.
We have people becoming Christians as adults in my country, and it's mostly late 20s/early 30s. Not culty, but it's like those people are afraid of getting old and dying or something. It's a weird phenomenon.
Bulgaria. If I had a dollar for each late 20s/early 30s person I know who suddenly became religious out of fear of growing old, I can probably replace my living room TV.
I became more religious after two near death experiences months apart, but it ironically faded when my childhood church treated those NDEs as moral failings. (It was Covid, and I live in an area with heavy denialism.) They managed to isolate me even more, and all they had to do was let me and my daughter go to mass without being assholeish.
I don’t know any who do it to erase body count. They’re still relying on the forgiveness of Christ, which implies they aren’t happy with their own past. It also doesn’t “count” if you’re not sorry and keep doing the thing, so presumably those women are no longer engaging in sleeping around.
To be fair to the sigma guy, there are women who where party queens in their 20s and 30s, and then as they lose energy and want to settle down, they turn super religious. Not just "I've had my fun, now I wanna do other stuff", they turn into puritans who preach about abstinance only, degrade people that use drugs, and they don't even do that from the perspective of someone that was rehabilitated, they preach as if they always believed this stuff. And I imagine that if you legitimately want a trad wife, that hipocrisy would be a problem.
I have two personal anacdotes from such women. The first is my boyfriend's aunt. When I met her she started rambling about us going to hell and how homossexuality was terrible, for like, an hour plus. After we left my boyfriend started talking about how she used to drink a lot, and smoked for years, but in the last decade she had converted and turned super religious (you can'teven have a beer type. She never mentioned her sinful past while telling us that we were going to hell. The second story is from one of my great aunts. I never met her pre conversion and she is in her 80s nowadays, so her rebel youth is decades in the past. But as I grew older my grandma and her other sister started telling me some anecdotes about her youth and she wasn't some "wait until marriage" type like she is today.
Then again, these women legitimately aren't the same people as they were decades ago. They're simply hypocrites that haven't lived what they preach, and hide their past. I can see how this is bad for right winger who want a perfect match, and the hypocrisy certainly is bad for people that don't want to live their desired lives.
I don’t know about them but I’m also raised Catholic but southern, so people witnessing to me are about to drop a bunch of guilt on my lap for being raised in the “wrong” church which is hella annoying.
Yes. It's an inherently irrational philosophy. And someone who's made it all the way to adulthood with such poor skepticism and critical thinking skills that they're then drawn in by the irrationality of religion isn't someone I want to interact with. People who were raised in it before they knew any better get more of a pass.
I’m not religious at all, but I think there’s a lot more to life than just rationality, and many more reasons to become religious than just lacking “critical thinking skills”.
I didn't say that lacking critical thinking skills was the reason people became religious as adults, but all the reasons people do offer for becoming religious are caused by a lack of critical thinking skills. And I don't know what "there's a lot more to life than just rationality" means, but I suspect we don't have the same idea of what "rationality" means.
I mean like, when you enjoy music, for example, that’s not a rational process, it’s more like, just moving you emotionally. I think people can become religious for similar reasons, that doesn’t have to mean they’re abandoning rationality, just getting fulfilment from something beyond it.
So you can turn on and off your religious belief? Sometimes you believe that Jesus was resurrected and sometimes you don't? How exactly do you think that the truth claims of religion can be compatible with a rational thought process?
They typically aren’t, but that doesn’t matter. You don’t need to be rational all the time. Human belief doesn’t have to be some binary true/false thing.
Most people who become religious as adults have a past they want to erase or want to have power over others via their religion.
Think Kanye West having a religious phase where they make everything about their god instead of them because they realised they have lived a life of selfishness and misery. It also usually don't end well and many don't leave their bad habits when they do become religious. The world is vary of them but religion does seem to give them "another life" many do infact have the "born again" practice.
Also most religions are against what one would call "major leftist ideas" and are quite bigoted(atleast the popular interpretations are).
How do you know what people’s motivations are? Do you have stats or anything to back that up? I think people realizing they are selfish and trying to change is a good thing… but of course, we’re human and don’t always succeed at what we try to do. Would you rather they not try at all?
It's about the why. Many people turn to religion to justify or erase past actions. Ofcourse I can't speak for all adults who become religious later in life but I can from personal experience (my dad) and from general shared experiences.
I am not saying that I agree with this post fully. However red flags are still a thing. A red flag doesn't mean "I am going to stop talking to this person immediately" it is just something one has to look out for. It's an aversion signal like pain. So are total deal breakers for me however.
There is a difference between an Ick, red flag, and a deal breaker.
Yeah I’m not religious but I tried to date this super Christian girl who told me she just wanted a relationship and within 5 minutes of meeting me my cock was out and she was blowing me and she’d told me like 20 times that she was saving herself for marriage and didn’t want to have sex with anyone except her future married partner and I kept trying to tell her that and she kept trying to stick my dick in her and I did everything but fuck her because she had literally told me not too but she was begging me too so quickly it was insane. Then the next morning I get a text saying she had a fun time but doesn’t think I respect her values. And I’m like you’re joking right? You literally tried to fuck me after telling me for the past two weeks how you don’t wanna fuck anyone but the person you’re marrying and it was our first date and we barely knew each other and I kept stopping her from breaking what she’d told me her values were and I was like how was me stopping us from having sex which you told me to do me not sharing your values then she brought god into it and now I’m just like I wish I’d fucked her lol. Not fucking her was soooo hard especially cause she had massive tits, ass, and thighs with a slim waste for a very curvy woman (so a little chub) but very hour glass shaped and probably one of the hottest women I’ve done stuff with and I regret just not fucking her so much now lol.
I mean I was saying a story about someone who became Christian as an adult and decided I don’t respect her values even though I stopped her from acting on her urges so she could keep her values because she said it was important to her to not have sex unless it’s to someone she’d known awhile and planned to marry and this was a last minute first date where she just came over and I was just blown away by how she pivoted on the no sex thing instantly almost, was a total horndog and then the next day decided I didn’t uphold/respect her values when I literally had to stop her from putting me in her so many times. The added part of her being super attractive was just to show how difficult it was to not fuck her and yet I still didn’t because of her values even though she had my ideal body type which isn’t everyone’s (huge boobs like bigger than my head, humongous ass like multiple bbls sized, huge tree trunk thighs, a relatively small stomach compared to her assets and most of it being fat that just grew in the right places she was a bbw for sure). I only say this to highlight how hard it was for me to not fuck her and give in to temptation but instead I got called out as not supporting her values when all I did was support them even though I really really wanted to fuck her and she kept saying she wanted to fuck me and trying to put me inside.
Why are people so uncomfortable with sex stories even if it’s relevant to the topic? This was a woman who became Christian later in life as an adult like a year before I met her. I’m just highlighting the craziness of the experience and how hard it was to not fuck her but we’d been talking for weeks and she wanted to save herself for marriage or at least a relationship she thought would turn into marriage and said that her past times fucking people has made her feel bad about herself and it was our first “date” so even though it was the hottest woman I’d ever met to me I didn’t fuck her even when she was begging for it and literally trying to slip me in her which I had to stop and she tells me that night how much fun she had and how she really appreciated that I was able to stop us from fucking because of the reasons she’d said before and for not taking advantage of her horniness just for her the next day she goes to church and suddenly i don’t respect her beliefs and don’t uphold or support her values…
This actually goes against biblical school of thought which is super ironic. People should not be judging others for their past sins and should recognize that they asked for forgiveness. Btw I’m not religious by any means and I despise purity culture, I’m just pointing out how hypocritical these religious bigots can be
Ohhhhh is this from a religious perspective like these women aren't "pure" enough? I read that at first from another perspective as I'm not religious either. Purity culture is horrible, imo.
Honestly, though, if anyone found religion as an adult, I see that as a better thing than indoctrination since childhood. At least you (should) have a better understanding of what you're getting into with that worldview.
And you would be wrong. At least, wrong to put it so universally. Some of the most batshit-insane christians out there are Born-Again Evangelicals, and not all of them had insane christian parents.
Yeah.... Good point. I think that was the vibe I got at first, like you're not going to get along with those people. Then I rationalized it that they're at least adults making an adult decision. Then I realized it was a purity perspective which felt gross.
I'm not religious, and I don't judge or want to stop people from their religious views. But if someone's religious views involve toxicity or telling other people how to live their lives...Yeah fuck off with that. And that's a good point, not growing up with that and deciding, yeah that's the way. That's pretty insane.
It seems there's a particular stereotype about women in that position.
They assume a woman who only became religious in her adulthood must have done so in a desperate attempt to shed some devastatingly sinful past and find redemption after suddenly realizing she's messed up her life (and afterlife, I guess?) all-around in the eyes of god. That's basically the same stereotype as "woman with a baggage".
Unfortunately, joining faith later as an adult is generally not as much better as it might seem, but it's safe to say that, as you mentioned, having lived some of your life and seen some stuff before doing so, can change how you deal with it. Hence, if the aforementioned thought wasn't shocking enough on its own (gasp!), they also often think such deeply wretched past must have molded her anyway - so she can't be a good Christian no matter how deep her faith is. A progressive Christian, for example - the audacity! This one is basically the "woke trying to infiltrate our spaces to shove it down our throats" narrative, combined with the idea that not only the aforementioned baggage is compromising, but it must define her present and future as well.
There's also a slightly different implication of willingness sometimes. Because she must have had faith in her all along (otherwise she would never become Christian to begin with, according to some views of faith), it means she actively avoided it, or even "planned to posticipate it", for a good while before sort of committing to the bit - of course, only superficially. Must mean she most likely wanted to live her sinful life with pride and disdain of god's will before finally settling and committing to the Church. Which I guess is arguably worse for some religious people? It's like, she fought against applying belief from the start because faith would restrict her and force her to be held uncountable for her own actions, until she considered herself satisfied playing around with the devil and went back home to the prodigal's father.
Worst case scenario, they'll go out of their way to accuse her of only being Christian on the surface and using religion as an utilitarian tool for some personal goal - feeling good with herself without atonement, saving her soul without changing her habits, being sheltered from the woke culture that destroyed her ('cause feminism is obviously absolutely toxic for the demographic that gave it its name!) or some other shit.
Conclusion/summary: These straights are definitely un-ok. Imagine how detached from reality you must be to think like this, the time and commitment they must dedicate to policing other people's faith (or lack thereof) and hallucinating non-existent scenarios to be mad about. They would actually be the BEST people around if they spent half that time into actually researching their own relationship with faith.
It's a weird thought process and seems pretty hypocritical. What's the point of going around converting people if this is how they'll think of them? Is it to have someone to look down on and Lord over? Because that thought process does not feel like any sense of love or compassion.
I also get the sense there are far more people who grew up religious and left than people who grow up to join these kinds of religions.
Regardless of its origin and actual roots, religion as a phenomenon has always been broadly used primarily as means to discriminate and police other people - including finding scapegoats for otherwise unfocused hate and aggressiveness. Whether it teaches so or not, it necessarily creates classes of people who are or aren't worthy of whatever deity's love, and therefore must be treated differently by the deity's followers too. Which is merely as good a way as any to satisfy the human love for classification, family vs enemy division, and simplification - but, more dangerously, also our love for self-righteousness, violence and projection of guilt.
The other side of the coin is that it allows control over those that might be most vulnerable to such discrimination, usually with the goal of abusing them. If I can convince you your miserable life can be made new - whether here on Earth or in the afterlife - if you just do a certain number of things and leave behind some others, chances are I can convince you to do anything I like. Doesn't really matter I was the one to make your life miserable in the first place.
Doesn't help that, no matter how strongly Christianity tries to teach that all humans are equal and that a willing sheep is the shepard's favourite (notice the inconsistency), its system belief is inherently self-righteous. People who adhere to it the way it's conveyed are the type of people who like to think themselves better than anyone else, if only for the certainty that they cannot suffer their god's wrath. Unless their god's wrath is brought upon them by the sins of their peers, of course! Then they can equally blame the non-religious and the faulty religious, but since there's no real way to determine how genuine a person's faith is, they'll use innatism. There's also a certain component of unfathomable predestination in almost any form of religion, so anyone who was converted later in life is bound to be seen as inferior regardless. Not very differently from white savior theory, if you think about it.
So yeah, sometimes the whole point is looking down on others, if it even stops there.
I also get the sense there are far more people who grew up religious and left than people who grow up to join these kinds of religions.
Luckily, I think you're right - based merely on personal experience, I don't have any stats on me. Luckily, actually knowing a certain religion as an adult, equipped with a decently functioning brain and lacking the early indoctrination, generally makes people avoid it like the plague. At least, that's generally true for sane people and especially true for certain specific religions. Unfortunately, there do be some manipulable people who fall for the worst of it nevertheless - which, on a side note, brings us back to how it doesn't always turn out better than early indoctrination.
For clarity, I will forever respect and admire people who can explore and develop their spirituality and faith with self-awareness, liberty and independence, actual empathy towards other beings, and a sense of responsibility about what religion is effectively and broadly used for by people who aren't as healthy or genuine as them. But they are unfortunately a minority compared to newfound religious people who just jumped on the grinding machine of religious hate and far-from-spiritual organisations.
Thing is, it would require so little cognitive work to see how certain religious currents are pure venom (both for people around us and ourselves), and yet "conversion" happens so often. We've made people ignorant, dumb, hateful, detached, tired, sick and divided, to a point they are so easily manipulable even as adults, and just looking for an outlet for their hate and a scapegoat for their problems. From there, I'm afraid it gets obvious how a person in such position will see whatever fitting religion as their panacea and dig the "hate everyone else" side of it instead of focusing on the "make yourself better" part.
Yeah pretty sure it's a central plot point in the Christian biblical story that a woman's sexual past should be forgiven once she accepts Jesus. They don't care, and haven't for thousands of years.
I know that people who convert to Catholcism as adults tend to be right-wing assholes, while those raised in it tend to be chill, but I suspect that isn't what they mean.
I've actually been learning about this because I find this to be interesting despite me not being religious.
Those people are called tradcaths, and many of the cradle catholics hate them, but there are some cradle catholics who are tradcaths.
They're trying to bring their Evangelical culture into Catholic spaces.
They also hate Vatican II, and some of them even go to Latin mass, which is against the rules because the Pope had it banned in the 50s in Vatican II. That means they're going against the core Catholic teaching of Papal Infallibility.
As opposed to the men who convert after sexually assaulting women and then start going around talking about Jesus 24/7 to escape accountability. Russel Brand, Conor McGregor
Tbh a religious conversion as an adult raises a huge red flag to me. These people have traumas or misdeeds and decide to heal them through religion instead of actually solving them. The problem is that most religions don't solve the problems but rather justify it ie they use their religion as a justification instead of a solution.
as a woman who watches a lot of david goggins motivational videos in the gym (i'm so fr don't roast me) this shit always annoys me so much. Something like that popped up in one of my youtube auto-generated playlists while i was running on the treadmill and i got so pissed i just flung my airpods at my backpack lmfao.
That's good advice though. People who are "born again" are typically fleeing from some kind of problem in their previous life rather actually dealing with it.
yes only date women who adopted the religion of their parents since birth and never questioned it ever. they're less likely to question anything else after all. dear bro, trust me bro, fear women bro, conquer women bro, i'm so lonely bro
I've heard non-religious women say you should steal clear of men who became religious, not just because of how sexist the religion is, but because it could be a sign that man did something BAD.
When someone gets to the right conclusion but for all the wrong reasons. People who have a religious 'born again' moments tend to have big issues that they use religion to distract themselves from, thats something to keep in mind that might cause problems. Meanwhile this guy is just slutshaming women for simply existing.
I would, but for very different reasons. I’m an atheist and someone who converted or was re-born is likely to be too strongly religious compared to someone that just kept whatever religions their parents had.
As someone who is agnostic/atheist, this would be a yellow flag for me considering I don't believe in fairy tales and would be worried about long term compatibility. But I don't think that is what is going on here.......
I’m in my late 20s and tried to figure out some things with my spirituality this year. If there are men who have remained religious their whole lives and not gone through the same process of breaking away and reckoning with its place in their life, I’d agree it’s not a good match.
u/cheese11balls, there weren't enough votes to determine the quality of your post...
It must suck to be a heterosexual male who hates and fears women. Just out there all "Feeeeemoids are evil icky yucky soul-devouring monsterpigs! Why don't they want to be with me?"
It really sounds exhausting. When I saw that one post crying that females were designed poorly and are dirty for having the vagina so close to the anus, I was like, Do you even like them?
Honestly probably still preferable to the straight woman prayer, “Hope this one doesn’t kill me.”
Honestly with how popular anal is with men that's not even a "design flaw" according to most of them. So which is it? Am I expected to do something I don't want to do to make a man stop whining and trying to pressure me, or should I feel deep shame for having a normal human body that I didn't get to design? Can they at least pick a lane?
You need to feel shame and self hate at all moments except for when pleasing a man.
You should have also never had sex before but also somehow know all the moves and not care to enjoy yourself and be ready to go at all times
No, especially when pleasing a man. You're a whore not letting a different man have the virgin girlfriend he needs /s
I mean I feel like most guys or at least most I’ve known pick a lane. One sees you as the human you are and won’t pressure you, they may ask but if you say no won’t ask again and will focus on what they and you enjoy; the other sees women as tools for pleasure so they don’t care how many times they get rejected from it they keep asking until unfortunately a lot of women are put through pain by an uncaring lover.
You may be surprised to learn this, but different men can actually have different opinions and sexual preferences.
Buddy if you can't handle a little bit of facetiousness when one of the "different opinions and sexual preferences" in question is literally finding it disgusting that your partner has a functioning human body that's on you
Lots of things about functioning human bodies are disgusting. It’s extremely poorly designed. Of course, that’s not anything anyone should be ashamed of, and anyone who tries to shame others for it is an asshole.
I don't think that is the problem. The problem is that these people want a virgin wife but don't want to be virgin themselves.
It’s stupid to hold your partner to standards you don’t meet yourself, I agree.
I mean I also agree that people who become religious as adults should be avoided, but not for the reason "Rise of Sigma" is implying.
Yes same, in fact that’s how I read it at first and then I realised ohhh no he’s talking from a religious person’s point of view
What's the reason "rise of sigma" is implying?
Basically that the women are not good wife material because of their past. At this point it can go multiple ways (most likely the default multiple sex-partners bullshit), but none of them are any good.
Oh, ok, I get it. In Spain nobody become Christian as an adult unless they are in a cult, but I understand that in USian culture some women who are tired of dating and want to marry may become more religious as a way to find a husband and Incels believe that they became religious to erase a big body count, isn't?
That is also my experience, but from an account named "rise of sigma" you know that isn't the right explanation.
That is a way we can interpret Sigma's tweet, but I doubt that would be truly the case for majority of women who find religion in their thirties.
More that these women have this body-count and therefor they are not marriage material. Another way you interpret it, it that incels truly believe women first want their "chad-phase" and are now settling for them.
Yeah, incelism is another type of cult
We have people becoming Christians as adults in my country, and it's mostly late 20s/early 30s. Not culty, but it's like those people are afraid of getting old and dying or something. It's a weird phenomenon.
What country, if you don’t mind me asking?
Bulgaria. If I had a dollar for each late 20s/early 30s person I know who suddenly became religious out of fear of growing old, I can probably replace my living room TV.
I became more religious after two near death experiences months apart, but it ironically faded when my childhood church treated those NDEs as moral failings. (It was Covid, and I live in an area with heavy denialism.) They managed to isolate me even more, and all they had to do was let me and my daughter go to mass without being assholeish.
I don’t know any who do it to erase body count. They’re still relying on the forgiveness of Christ, which implies they aren’t happy with their own past. It also doesn’t “count” if you’re not sorry and keep doing the thing, so presumably those women are no longer engaging in sleeping around.
To be fair to the sigma guy, there are women who where party queens in their 20s and 30s, and then as they lose energy and want to settle down, they turn super religious. Not just "I've had my fun, now I wanna do other stuff", they turn into puritans who preach about abstinance only, degrade people that use drugs, and they don't even do that from the perspective of someone that was rehabilitated, they preach as if they always believed this stuff. And I imagine that if you legitimately want a trad wife, that hipocrisy would be a problem.
I have two personal anacdotes from such women. The first is my boyfriend's aunt. When I met her she started rambling about us going to hell and how homossexuality was terrible, for like, an hour plus. After we left my boyfriend started talking about how she used to drink a lot, and smoked for years, but in the last decade she had converted and turned super religious (you can'teven have a beer type. She never mentioned her sinful past while telling us that we were going to hell. The second story is from one of my great aunts. I never met her pre conversion and she is in her 80s nowadays, so her rebel youth is decades in the past. But as I grew older my grandma and her other sister started telling me some anecdotes about her youth and she wasn't some "wait until marriage" type like she is today.
Then again, these women legitimately aren't the same people as they were decades ago. They're simply hypocrites that haven't lived what they preach, and hide their past. I can see how this is bad for right winger who want a perfect match, and the hypocrisy certainly is bad for people that don't want to live their desired lives.
I avoid datinf people who turned religious as adults, and people that kept being religious as adults.
Yup. Raised catholic. The first thing you learn is to politely nod and back away when you run into adult converts.
Why are the catholic ones the weirdest? I don't get it.
I don’t know about them but I’m also raised Catholic but southern, so people witnessing to me are about to drop a bunch of guilt on my lap for being raised in the “wrong” church which is hella annoying.
Yeah, its unironically only like a 1 in 10 chance they arent a nazi.
Yeah it's like a person who just gave up on being rational because they thought it was too hard.
Look, I’m saying this as an atheist, there’s more to life than rationality.
Why do you think people who become religious as adults should be avoided? Is there something wrong with being religious?
Yes. It's an inherently irrational philosophy. And someone who's made it all the way to adulthood with such poor skepticism and critical thinking skills that they're then drawn in by the irrationality of religion isn't someone I want to interact with. People who were raised in it before they knew any better get more of a pass.
I’m not religious at all, but I think there’s a lot more to life than just rationality, and many more reasons to become religious than just lacking “critical thinking skills”.
I didn't say that lacking critical thinking skills was the reason people became religious as adults, but all the reasons people do offer for becoming religious are caused by a lack of critical thinking skills. And I don't know what "there's a lot more to life than just rationality" means, but I suspect we don't have the same idea of what "rationality" means.
I mean like, when you enjoy music, for example, that’s not a rational process, it’s more like, just moving you emotionally. I think people can become religious for similar reasons, that doesn’t have to mean they’re abandoning rationality, just getting fulfilment from something beyond it.
It is an inherent requirement of believing religion to abandon rationality.
It’s really not. Allowing yourself to be irrational sometimes doesn’t mean you’re abandoning it.
So you can turn on and off your religious belief? Sometimes you believe that Jesus was resurrected and sometimes you don't? How exactly do you think that the truth claims of religion can be compatible with a rational thought process?
They typically aren’t, but that doesn’t matter. You don’t need to be rational all the time. Human belief doesn’t have to be some binary true/false thing.
Most people who become religious as adults have a past they want to erase or want to have power over others via their religion.
Think Kanye West having a religious phase where they make everything about their god instead of them because they realised they have lived a life of selfishness and misery. It also usually don't end well and many don't leave their bad habits when they do become religious. The world is vary of them but religion does seem to give them "another life" many do infact have the "born again" practice.
Also most religions are against what one would call "major leftist ideas" and are quite bigoted(atleast the popular interpretations are).
How do you know what people’s motivations are? Do you have stats or anything to back that up? I think people realizing they are selfish and trying to change is a good thing… but of course, we’re human and don’t always succeed at what we try to do. Would you rather they not try at all?
It's about the why. Many people turn to religion to justify or erase past actions. Ofcourse I can't speak for all adults who become religious later in life but I can from personal experience (my dad) and from general shared experiences.
Shouldn’t we try and avoid judging entire demographics of people based on experiences with just a few of them?
I am not saying that I agree with this post fully. However red flags are still a thing. A red flag doesn't mean "I am going to stop talking to this person immediately" it is just something one has to look out for. It's an aversion signal like pain. So are total deal breakers for me however.
There is a difference between an Ick, red flag, and a deal breaker.
Yeah, like you were not religious and saw all the pointless inherent hate and divide and still chose to become religious? Hell nah
Yeah I’m not religious but I tried to date this super Christian girl who told me she just wanted a relationship and within 5 minutes of meeting me my cock was out and she was blowing me and she’d told me like 20 times that she was saving herself for marriage and didn’t want to have sex with anyone except her future married partner and I kept trying to tell her that and she kept trying to stick my dick in her and I did everything but fuck her because she had literally told me not too but she was begging me too so quickly it was insane. Then the next morning I get a text saying she had a fun time but doesn’t think I respect her values. And I’m like you’re joking right? You literally tried to fuck me after telling me for the past two weeks how you don’t wanna fuck anyone but the person you’re marrying and it was our first date and we barely knew each other and I kept stopping her from breaking what she’d told me her values were and I was like how was me stopping us from having sex which you told me to do me not sharing your values then she brought god into it and now I’m just like I wish I’d fucked her lol. Not fucking her was soooo hard especially cause she had massive tits, ass, and thighs with a slim waste for a very curvy woman (so a little chub) but very hour glass shaped and probably one of the hottest women I’ve done stuff with and I regret just not fucking her so much now lol.
Cool story bro
Ikr like bro said that under 0 pressure
I mean I was saying a story about someone who became Christian as an adult and decided I don’t respect her values even though I stopped her from acting on her urges so she could keep her values because she said it was important to her to not have sex unless it’s to someone she’d known awhile and planned to marry and this was a last minute first date where she just came over and I was just blown away by how she pivoted on the no sex thing instantly almost, was a total horndog and then the next day decided I didn’t uphold/respect her values when I literally had to stop her from putting me in her so many times. The added part of her being super attractive was just to show how difficult it was to not fuck her and yet I still didn’t because of her values even though she had my ideal body type which isn’t everyone’s (huge boobs like bigger than my head, humongous ass like multiple bbls sized, huge tree trunk thighs, a relatively small stomach compared to her assets and most of it being fat that just grew in the right places she was a bbw for sure). I only say this to highlight how hard it was for me to not fuck her and give in to temptation but instead I got called out as not supporting her values when all I did was support them even though I really really wanted to fuck her and she kept saying she wanted to fuck me and trying to put me inside.
Sir, this is a Wendys
Why are people so uncomfortable with sex stories even if it’s relevant to the topic? This was a woman who became Christian later in life as an adult like a year before I met her. I’m just highlighting the craziness of the experience and how hard it was to not fuck her but we’d been talking for weeks and she wanted to save herself for marriage or at least a relationship she thought would turn into marriage and said that her past times fucking people has made her feel bad about herself and it was our first “date” so even though it was the hottest woman I’d ever met to me I didn’t fuck her even when she was begging for it and literally trying to slip me in her which I had to stop and she tells me that night how much fun she had and how she really appreciated that I was able to stop us from fucking because of the reasons she’d said before and for not taking advantage of her horniness just for her the next day she goes to church and suddenly i don’t respect her beliefs and don’t uphold or support her values…
I think I just threw up in my mouth
Did everybody enjoy the chicken? I thought the chicken was lovely
It was more like a full course meal and I wish I’d gone for dessert now after her crazy flip flopping.
This actually goes against biblical school of thought which is super ironic. People should not be judging others for their past sins and should recognize that they asked for forgiveness. Btw I’m not religious by any means and I despise purity culture, I’m just pointing out how hypocritical these religious bigots can be
Ohhhhh is this from a religious perspective like these women aren't "pure" enough? I read that at first from another perspective as I'm not religious either. Purity culture is horrible, imo.
Honestly, though, if anyone found religion as an adult, I see that as a better thing than indoctrination since childhood. At least you (should) have a better understanding of what you're getting into with that worldview.
And you would be wrong. At least, wrong to put it so universally. Some of the most batshit-insane christians out there are Born-Again Evangelicals, and not all of them had insane christian parents.
Yeah.... Good point. I think that was the vibe I got at first, like you're not going to get along with those people. Then I rationalized it that they're at least adults making an adult decision. Then I realized it was a purity perspective which felt gross.
I'm not religious, and I don't judge or want to stop people from their religious views. But if someone's religious views involve toxicity or telling other people how to live their lives...Yeah fuck off with that. And that's a good point, not growing up with that and deciding, yeah that's the way. That's pretty insane.
It seems there's a particular stereotype about women in that position.
They assume a woman who only became religious in her adulthood must have done so in a desperate attempt to shed some devastatingly sinful past and find redemption after suddenly realizing she's messed up her life (and afterlife, I guess?) all-around in the eyes of god. That's basically the same stereotype as "woman with a baggage".
Unfortunately, joining faith later as an adult is generally not as much better as it might seem, but it's safe to say that, as you mentioned, having lived some of your life and seen some stuff before doing so, can change how you deal with it. Hence, if the aforementioned thought wasn't shocking enough on its own (gasp!), they also often think such deeply wretched past must have molded her anyway - so she can't be a good Christian no matter how deep her faith is. A progressive Christian, for example - the audacity! This one is basically the "woke trying to infiltrate our spaces to shove it down our throats" narrative, combined with the idea that not only the aforementioned baggage is compromising, but it must define her present and future as well.
There's also a slightly different implication of willingness sometimes. Because she must have had faith in her all along (otherwise she would never become Christian to begin with, according to some views of faith), it means she actively avoided it, or even "planned to posticipate it", for a good while before sort of committing to the bit - of course, only superficially. Must mean she most likely wanted to live her sinful life with pride and disdain of god's will before finally settling and committing to the Church. Which I guess is arguably worse for some religious people? It's like, she fought against applying belief from the start because faith would restrict her and force her to be held uncountable for her own actions, until she considered herself satisfied playing around with the devil and went back home to the prodigal's father.
Worst case scenario, they'll go out of their way to accuse her of only being Christian on the surface and using religion as an utilitarian tool for some personal goal - feeling good with herself without atonement, saving her soul without changing her habits, being sheltered from the woke culture that destroyed her ('cause feminism is obviously absolutely toxic for the demographic that gave it its name!) or some other shit.
Conclusion/summary: These straights are definitely un-ok. Imagine how detached from reality you must be to think like this, the time and commitment they must dedicate to policing other people's faith (or lack thereof) and hallucinating non-existent scenarios to be mad about. They would actually be the BEST people around if they spent half that time into actually researching their own relationship with faith.
It's a weird thought process and seems pretty hypocritical. What's the point of going around converting people if this is how they'll think of them? Is it to have someone to look down on and Lord over? Because that thought process does not feel like any sense of love or compassion.
I also get the sense there are far more people who grew up religious and left than people who grow up to join these kinds of religions.
Regardless of its origin and actual roots, religion as a phenomenon has always been broadly used primarily as means to discriminate and police other people - including finding scapegoats for otherwise unfocused hate and aggressiveness. Whether it teaches so or not, it necessarily creates classes of people who are or aren't worthy of whatever deity's love, and therefore must be treated differently by the deity's followers too. Which is merely as good a way as any to satisfy the human love for classification, family vs enemy division, and simplification - but, more dangerously, also our love for self-righteousness, violence and projection of guilt.
The other side of the coin is that it allows control over those that might be most vulnerable to such discrimination, usually with the goal of abusing them. If I can convince you your miserable life can be made new - whether here on Earth or in the afterlife - if you just do a certain number of things and leave behind some others, chances are I can convince you to do anything I like. Doesn't really matter I was the one to make your life miserable in the first place.
Doesn't help that, no matter how strongly Christianity tries to teach that all humans are equal and that a willing sheep is the shepard's favourite (notice the inconsistency), its system belief is inherently self-righteous. People who adhere to it the way it's conveyed are the type of people who like to think themselves better than anyone else, if only for the certainty that they cannot suffer their god's wrath. Unless their god's wrath is brought upon them by the sins of their peers, of course! Then they can equally blame the non-religious and the faulty religious, but since there's no real way to determine how genuine a person's faith is, they'll use innatism. There's also a certain component of unfathomable predestination in almost any form of religion, so anyone who was converted later in life is bound to be seen as inferior regardless. Not very differently from white savior theory, if you think about it.
So yeah, sometimes the whole point is looking down on others, if it even stops there.
Luckily, I think you're right - based merely on personal experience, I don't have any stats on me. Luckily, actually knowing a certain religion as an adult, equipped with a decently functioning brain and lacking the early indoctrination, generally makes people avoid it like the plague. At least, that's generally true for sane people and especially true for certain specific religions. Unfortunately, there do be some manipulable people who fall for the worst of it nevertheless - which, on a side note, brings us back to how it doesn't always turn out better than early indoctrination.
For clarity, I will forever respect and admire people who can explore and develop their spirituality and faith with self-awareness, liberty and independence, actual empathy towards other beings, and a sense of responsibility about what religion is effectively and broadly used for by people who aren't as healthy or genuine as them. But they are unfortunately a minority compared to newfound religious people who just jumped on the grinding machine of religious hate and far-from-spiritual organisations.
Thing is, it would require so little cognitive work to see how certain religious currents are pure venom (both for people around us and ourselves), and yet "conversion" happens so often. We've made people ignorant, dumb, hateful, detached, tired, sick and divided, to a point they are so easily manipulable even as adults, and just looking for an outlet for their hate and a scapegoat for their problems. From there, I'm afraid it gets obvious how a person in such position will see whatever fitting religion as their panacea and dig the "hate everyone else" side of it instead of focusing on the "make yourself better" part.
Yeah pretty sure it's a central plot point in the Christian biblical story that a woman's sexual past should be forgiven once she accepts Jesus. They don't care, and haven't for thousands of years.
I know that people who convert to Catholcism as adults tend to be right-wing assholes, while those raised in it tend to be chill, but I suspect that isn't what they mean.
I've actually been learning about this because I find this to be interesting despite me not being religious.
Those people are called tradcaths, and many of the cradle catholics hate them, but there are some cradle catholics who are tradcaths.
They're trying to bring their Evangelical culture into Catholic spaces.
They also hate Vatican II, and some of them even go to Latin mass, which is against the rules because the Pope had it banned in the 50s in Vatican II. That means they're going against the core Catholic teaching of Papal Infallibility.
just another way of saying she had a “body count”
As opposed to the men who convert after sexually assaulting women and then start going around talking about Jesus 24/7 to escape accountability. Russel Brand, Conor McGregor
Maybe one of my youth pastors…
Tbh a religious conversion as an adult raises a huge red flag to me. These people have traumas or misdeeds and decide to heal them through religion instead of actually solving them. The problem is that most religions don't solve the problems but rather justify it ie they use their religion as a justification instead of a solution.
as a woman who watches a lot of david goggins motivational videos in the gym (i'm so fr don't roast me) this shit always annoys me so much. Something like that popped up in one of my youtube auto-generated playlists while i was running on the treadmill and i got so pissed i just flung my airpods at my backpack lmfao.
love the flair twin
LMFAO thank you 😭, it's meirl fr
ironically there's a non-zero chance that this dude himself is a convert LMFAO
ETA: dudes raised to be religious are assholes, but converts (especially tradcaths) can be especially uppity
What about women who abandoned religion in their twenties? I hope this protects me from whoever THESE^ men are.
Coming to your senses is always an endearing quality.
Unfortunately there is a trend of "converting" "nomads"/ infidels in almost all religions. This is so common it seems to be a fetish to me.
Interesting. I’m in a red state so I see far more the other way (since religion was kind of a base state).
I assume some of the weird social media crap is what makes it so popular.
Dear bro,
Avoid dating a woman only
Dear ,
Avoid dating a man who
became religious
That's good advice though. People who are "born again" are typically fleeing from some kind of problem in their previous life rather actually dealing with it.
"Rise of smegma" feels more appropriate
Imagine thinking you’re some badass alpha/ sigma male boy being scared of women with differing views to you. Not very sigma of you.
Rise of sigma? More like rise of smegma
yes only date women who adopted the religion of their parents since birth and never questioned it ever. they're less likely to question anything else after all. dear bro, trust me bro, fear women bro, conquer women bro, i'm so lonely bro
Why women still even interact with males anymore confused me so much
Don't date anyone who became religious later in life, it usually means that they've got some serious skeletons in their closet.
I mean, they have a point. Sometimes they're zealots. Although that doesn't have anything much to do with the age or gender of a person.
I've heard non-religious women say you should steal clear of men who became religious, not just because of how sexist the religion is, but because it could be a sign that man did something BAD.
Avoid anyone who is religious while adult, period.
When someone gets to the right conclusion but for all the wrong reasons. People who have a religious 'born again' moments tend to have big issues that they use religion to distract themselves from, thats something to keep in mind that might cause problems. Meanwhile this guy is just slutshaming women for simply existing.
jokes on you- I avoid dating any one of any age who is religious
They bitch about not being able to get a date and then narrow their dating options with these ridiculous qualifiers. No wonder they are lonely.
“Why does no-one meet my ridiculous and literally impossible standards?!”
I would, but for very different reasons. I’m an atheist and someone who converted or was re-born is likely to be too strongly religious compared to someone that just kept whatever religions their parents had.
I think unreligious people are the less annoying choice maybe.
Dear bro,
As someone who is agnostic/atheist, this would be a yellow flag for me considering I don't believe in fairy tales and would be worried about long term compatibility. But I don't think that is what is going on here.......
you can just say you wouldn't be compatible instead of taking a shot at religion my guy
I’m in my late 20s and tried to figure out some things with my spirituality this year. If there are men who have remained religious their whole lives and not gone through the same process of breaking away and reckoning with its place in their life, I’d agree it’s not a good match.