So this was posted on the Kerrang website on a post regarding Andrew's disappearance by an alleged classmate, and they claim Andrew was singled out and bullied sometimes. Do we think this is legitimate? There's another comment on there from someone who claimed to have been a friend of his at school and described it as a shame that he ran away.
Curious to know people's thoughts
(if you wanna read the thread yourself: https://web.archive.org/web/20090322060102/http://www2.kerrang.com/2007/10/missing_boy_can_you_help.html )
I was a gifted child at an English state school.
I'm more surprised when anyone says he wasn't bullied sometimes.
I think the reason his parents say it is because they don’t want to think of him suffering.
Agree with everyone else that high school bullying at that age can be horrendous even in tbe best schools. I was subject to it at all four secondaries I went to. Looking at Andrew and knowing what we know, there’s no doubt he would’ve been a bullies’ wet dream. Sad but true.
I agree but in 2007 bullying was very much viewed as physical not psychological in the UK.
I'm about Mr Gosden's age but because of my past profession (youth work, young homeless adults) I've kept up to date. the landscape of how we understand bullying has changed dramatically in the last 15 years.
My generation thinks of bullying in terms of assault, groups name calling, it's very different to the current definition.
Avoiding the school bus, missing phones, would now in 2025 be considered red flags, indicators of possible bullying.
I even think the police wouldn't have noticed that in 2007, but now we have better training, specialist officers.
(see my post below)
I went to school from 1999-2009 (I’m about a year and a half younger than Andrew) and I will say that I remember literally nobody caring.
Plenty of people saw verbal and physical bullying at the schools I attended. You’d get “oh it’s a shame” occasionally but nobody wanted to be seen as a grass. I remember it got to the stage in my first high school that I was forced to go to a head of year by parents and I got so nervous I giggled. Head of year immediately shouted at me for my reaction and made me feel I couldn’t tell him anything. I gave some names (which I sorely regretted) however I’ve no idea whether the perpetrators were ever spoken to. Certainly it didn’t stop much. My fourth high school I walked out of class due to a vile comment by someone and nobody got in trouble, teacher did sweet FA.
Hopefully things are better now for students, but if Andrew was bullied I can see why he maybe chose to not say anything.
I wonder if Andrew’s friends chose not to come forward about any sort of bullying as to not embarrass him or make his family feel bad. It must have got harder and harder to come forward as the years went on.
This brought back a lot of memories and this is almost exactly what I recall. If you weren’t being beaten up, then you weren’t being bullied. It had a different definition and understanding back then for sure and punishment for even very sustained, evidenced cases of it was pretty minimal so there was little incentive to stop!
So am I.
Missing Mobiles. lost or perhaps not... 2007 the idea of cyber bullying was just being understood, Text bullying they used to call it. Phones being taken, bullies like to seize their victims possessions, destroy them..
,The one knowable incident where Andrew walked home instead of getting the bus. Note Mr Gosden was home early from work that day unexpectedly and noticed Andrew was late and asked why, Andrew stated he decided to walk. However, it appears on most days there would have been no one home to notice, if this was a pattern. Andrew's sister often stayed later to study or go with friends to study after school.
School buses in the UK are not school specific its the normal public transport open to everyone and often filled with kids from different schools. It's possible he was bullied in school but more so, on the bus by kids from another school. I use to commute by bus as I don't drive, packed with school kids, I've stepped in whilst others ignore kids being bullied, racially harassed ( ex youth worker/youth homelessness so I'm more confident than most)
The worse time for kids who have been bullied is the return to school after the long summer holidays in September. I honestly think Andrew could not face that bus, that journey to school on that day in September when he went missing. It's the one striking feature of that day, that he went to the bus stop and it's like he couldn't face it,
I would also like to point out that teens especially, don't always say anything, stay silent, fear being seen as weak, those from loving families don;t want to upset their parents, especially if their parents don;t fit the norm for most of the UK, e.g. regular church goers. I used to work for a religious in name but open minded world renown youth charity ( the YMCA) and this atheist worked with Anglicans like the Gosdens whose kids got bullied because of their parents faith, in one case moving them to a faith school.
Just to note that sometimes there are school specific buses, at least in Scotland.
yes usually in rural areas that don't have regular routes and are provided as a statutory requirement by the Local Authority. I have friends in Cornwall and yes it's special school service because it's 16 miles away from their village and without it many kids would not be able to get to school.
In Doncaster I doubt it.
We had them in Glasgow!
I was gonna say! Had them at every school I went to both in England and Scotland. Never lived anywhere rural.
There were school specific buses in Doncaster, most towns have them, I've never known schools to use public transport.
I am in central Scotland and there are school buses dedicated to only serving schools. I also lived in Cambridge and at my primary and secondary school there, there were dedicated school buses too. At secondary, a late one even came an hour or so later to pickup students who may have had detention or school clubs. These had signs on them specifying they were a school bus only.
Got them in Bradford.
Am also surprised. I went to an average secondary school. The bullying was absolutely horrendous, even though the school is described as one of the best in my area and teachers never speak one bad thing about it. I feel like Andrew's school would certainly be similar in that regard. It's very very unlikely he went from year 7 to year 10 without being bullied or at least mildly picked on at all, I just can't comprehend that idea at all, especially in 2007
Agreed, unless he was exceptionally lucky, I don’t see it likely he wasn’t at least hazed or “picked on” (even if only mildly.)
That being said, lots of bullies are very good at hiding what they’re doing and/or have parents/guardians who refuse to engage with the school over it as an issue.
as was I...I was maybe targetted but i dont and never thought of it as bullying.
i was simply 'different' than the average bear and others took a little while til they got to know and equally i had to adapt to others.
It's hard to know if it is real. These friends and classmates will be adults now, approaching their 30s. I always wonder why we never see anything from them today, even just a post or a quick 10 second comment in a video or podcast.....
Honestly, I presume they don’t feel it appropriate to comment (or may have been advised not to by the police.)
It could even be the case they feel some degree of “guilt” - not necessarily because they did anything to him, but because they didn’t try harder to befriend or notice him.
Andrew would be 32 now.
There are a few anecdotes about Andrew here and there on Facebook from his peers, including a boy who made friends with him on the Gifted & Talented course.
Andrew was in the gate program correct? What if he’s working for the gov
Bex already commented on a video about Andrew confirming that she was his old classmate. She commented a few years ago. So yes, it’s very real
Two of his “friends” spoke to the daily fail a while ago. But one was the vicars son, who didn’t go to Andrews school. And one was a friend who didn’t describe herself as one of Andrews. Ie she said Andrew had cut off most of his friends when starting secondary and didn’t describe herself as one.
I think the same as you. I feel it’s odd none ever commented.
I always wonder the same. I feel like there's always so much simple psychology that is overlooked that could easily explain things in a lot of cases like this
His class mates would be approaching 33
I can't see why it couldn't be true. In those years, if you were a goth or an emo, it was very hard not to become a target of bullying. However, I don't think the police making this fact public would have changed much, especially if bullying was a potential reason for Andrew's disappearance. In fact, they might have avoided highlighting it, fearing it could increase Andrew's sense of shame or embarrassment. Publicly exposing something personal like that might have made him feel more isolated, and possibly discouraged him from returning home, if he were indeed trying to escape something like bullying.
As for his schoolmates, it's also very possible they didn't know anything more than what the police already had. From what we know, Andrew was a private young lad, so if there was anything troubling him, he might not have shared it with anyone. If bullying was indeed an issue, he might have kept that to himself, as many do in these situations, especially if they felt like they were already outside the social norm.
At this point, it seems safe to assume that the only person who truly knew the reason for his trip to London was Andrew himself - and possibly a potential "groomer" or someone who may have been manipulating him, if he had fallen victim to this kind of exploitation.
In my opinion, the case is complex not only because of the potential bullying or outside influences, but because of the overall secrecy around Andrew's life. If there was some form of grooming or if he was thinking about ending his life, that's an additional layer of tragedy.
It could explain why he may have left without informing anyone, and why he chose such a drastic step like disappearing to London.
The thing is though is that I've seen at least half a dozen or so posts on sites like that from closer to the time Andrew disappeared who all say very similar things about their experiences with Andrew - that he was singled out, bullied, few friends, nobody knew why he ran away, etc
A few people on Kevin's Facebook group also say very similar things, but it seems like the adults in Andrew's life never mention any bullying taking place.
There will be of course some attention seekers who pretend to have known Andrew, but overall I don't think everyone who writes comments like these is lying.
I don’t see why it can’t be real. Usually with missing people cases there are close friends who have some words to say that will go out to the public or they’ll do some level of advocating (especially with cold cases and the surge of interest in true crime in recent years - so many cases have been brought to light by friends or families). We haven’t seen that either Andrew. A message like this from a curious acquaintance from school makes sense to me.
Andrew hasn’t had anyone who was in school with him come forward to do that so I do believe he was singled out. Maybe not so much in a terribly obvious way that we’d see today, like carried over to social media wreaking havoc on both school life and home life. But in a way that he’d be the butt of the joke BECAUSE he didn’t have his own circle of friends. And I think we can all confidently say that we’ve seen smart kids picked on in either primary or secondary school. I know I’ve seen it happen in both.
Either way, being bullied to any degree is crushing and has immeasurable effects. And not having any particularly close friends is isolating and tough.
This classmate is telling the truth. Bex commented on a video about Andrew saying “He used to go to my school”
[deleted]
Absolutely
I was horrendously bullied at high school and I mean so bad that I ended up having to leave school at 14 and have a home tutor. The truth is, when you’ve no real school friends, nobody cares! His classmates don’t comment because they weren’t friends. Yes they probably felt shocked to learn he’d gone missing but sadly they’ll have soon moved on with their lives as he wasn’t part of their lives.
I mean this with no disrespect whatsoever, but Andrew simply didn't have any friends. Especially at school.
His circle was a very small and close one, which centred entirely around his family.
There have been endless "friends" popping up on everything to BBC Look North, to a Kerrang message board, who have simply been there to generate attention for themselves or cause mischief.
The Gosdens will refer to their friends children as Andrew's friends, which is well meaning of them, but just because his Mum and Dad get on with another kid's Mum and Dad, it doesn't mean that their kids will genuinely get on. It's naive of the Gosdens not to take that into account.
I believe Andrew was more likely lonely than bullied per-se, Doncaster in the 00s wasn't a cool eclectic multicultural metropolis. There would have been a monoculture within his school where liking wearing black or liking bands such as Slipknot, have no part of it.
Without dwelling too much into the Lancaster Uni residential (as it happened almost a full year before he went missing) that would have been Andrew's first taste of people who were more on his wavelength. Going back to Donny after that would have felt pretty brutal.
In some ways he was more mature for his years, in many others less mature, but this was a frustratred, lonely, and bored boy, so was looking for something different.
I agree that Andrew was lonely and particularly vulnerable to a predatory adult. I think it was his maths teacher who said that Andrew gravitated towards adult company. I feel this is overlooked? Which adults did he gravitate to?
Impossible to say. The Gosden’s are a very religious family so it’s possible they had a lot of church friends who visited, most of which were probably adults due to the fact that is the main church clientele these days. I know one regularly comments on FB public posts doubting that Andrew would’ve been groomed. Kevin’s friend in the article Rev Alan Murray also visited regularly and was the last person known to Andrew to see him that day. A couple of teachers also commented in that article.
Not suggesting any of these people had anything to do with Andrew’s disappearance btw.
I think I saw that comment, the man who said Andrew couldn't have been groomed because he was too intelligent. Very naive thing to say. Even though he was clever, he was still a vulnerable kid.
Because his maths teacher said Andrew liked adult company, I'm wondering if there was another teacher, teaching assistant or even a supply teacher that Andrew bonded with, but like you said it's impossible to say.
I think it's almost taboo to suspect the adults he gravitated to.
Sadly, Andrew would have felt comfortable in the company of a predatory adult - he was an intelligent lad, but he was immature emotionally and sexually in a way that I wasn't at that age, so my experiences were very different.
I know any neg comments about the Rev result in a ban. Or they used to anyway. Rumour was he threatened the mods w legal action but I dunno if that’s just hearsay.
I think it may be something of an urban myth!
I think it's absolutely fair game to discuss theories based on people close to Andrew, including the last people to see him.
Certain parties apparently contacting mods on here, and threatening them with legal action reeks to high heaven, and points towards people trying to shine a light elsewhere.
Just looked at the sub rules, and there isn't (happy to be corrected) a rule which states "ssh! do not mention the vicar!"
He just keeps on cropping up.
Twas this post that made me feel wary about mentioning him!
It always felt odd as people back then were posting blaming Kevin or others, and didn’t get banned for that.
Gosh! It was five years ago!
Not sure what's happened before or since then, but there's no rule stating this on the sidebar.
If a mod steps in, I'm happy to delete any post I make which breaks any rules, but I just don't think people should have a list of things and people they cannot discuss. Nobody has been "exonerated" from this, and to an extent, everyone is a possible suspect.
There's elements of this case which are similar to that of Madeline McCann, but if Kate n Gerry (two notoriously litigious and well-connected people) cannot close down debate on reddit regarding their culpability in the death of their daughter, how on earth can a random clergyman in Yorkshire wield so much power and influence.
Other than the woman who sold Andrew the ticket at Donny railway station, the Rev was the last person to see Andrew alive, therefore I'd say he's a person of some interest.
I know people did get banned for mentioning him so even though it’s still a long while ago i keep my opinions of the guy to myself. Or DM lol. I can’t DM you but I’m happy to share my thoughts!
What about the two people who spoke to the press? One confirmed that he had a couple of mates.
To be honest, I have a feeling those 'friends' claimed Andrew was more social than he was as they wouldn't have wanted to describe a fellow teenager, never mind a missing one, as being a loner or having no friends. Surely if Andrew had more friends we would've heard from at least one of them as opposed to two quite distant acquaintances/family friends and a handful of adults.
Good point. I always wonder why they went to the press though, especially to a rag like the daily mail. The kids said what they did, the Rev went into the details of Kevin’s suicide attempt and his daughter’s private fb post, and some of Andrew’s old teachers spoke of him.
I see why Andrew’s parents spoke to them about Andrew (any publicity is good publicity) but I never understood why the others did. I don’t blame the kids entirely as they were only young.
It's an odd article, but I suppose it reports on Andrew's personal life from a slightly different angle to most of the other papers at the time, which I guess is what the Mail were looking for. The article doesn't really contain much factual content, only personal stories of Andrew which I guess is why only the Mail and maybe other tabloids would publish such a story.
Do you have a link to the article, please? I have tried searching for a bit, but nothing comes up
Here you go.
Interestingly it’s very difficult to find it online now.
Thank you so much! Yeah I could NOT find it 🥲 I’ll read it now
I guess so. Judging by what I’ve seen elsewhere on SM, a lot of the friends of the Gosden’s are a bit naive. I remember one (a man who looked around Kevin’s age, think he was a church friend) saying Andrew couldn’t have been groomed/gone off with someone as he was too intelligent. I can imagine if the others were similar that they might think it was a good thing talking about such personal things to the press. I’m not suggesting the vicar had owt to do with it but outing his daughters FB and going into great detail about Kevin’s suicide attempt was bizarre.
I do think a lot of the SM comments from people who supposedly knew Andrew are a bit odd, but oftentimes people who spend time commenting on Facebook groups usually are more of the naïve sort anyway. I do find the complete denial that Andrew could've been groomed a bit peculiar though.
It might be the case that Andrew was quite heavily monitored at home, thus his family and others thinking it wouldn't have been possible for him to be in contact with anyone else without them knowing about it. Oftentimes though having stricter parents just means you go out of your way more to hide things, as opposed to not doing these things at all.
I'm not convinced by them, Jules.
I think one of them was one of the parent's friends's kids, and the Vicar's kids spoke to the press too.
They certainly were known to Andrew, but I don't believe they were friends, more a case of forced-playmates.
The loneliness of Andrew in this whole thing has been massively ignored and misunderstood.
That’s fair! I know the first one was the Vicar’s son Sandy, but I guess I just took what the other girl said as truth as she went to his school. The whole loneliness thing definitely ties into a lot of what Kevin has said. Andrew being withdrawn, not going to see his friends much anymore, walking home all that way alone. I am still of the opinion that he may have been groomed by someone he knew irl, which I’m aware is a suggestion that always gets downvoted.
Honestly don't know why you're downvoted for pointing all this out. It makes you wonder who some of the people are here who post on here saying "you can't say that"
I'm pretty much on the same page about the local groomer, and how he's still circling around the family. I don't think that had anything to do with the London trip though - Andrew was increasingly lonely and feeling ever more distant from the people he knew, and was looking for some excitement in his life, and something bad happened by chance in London.
On a different note, if you're looking for some light relief, get the popcorn out and have a catch-up on the dramarama happening on the TattleLife sub. Enjoy!
Though I will add, that in year 9/10 they start to mix up the pupils (they aren’t all taught in their tutor groups for every class anymore) and at the end of Y9 they pick their options. Andrew went missing a few weeks into y10.
But when you think about it, it’s doubtful one person-
knew how many friends Andrew had
and knew for sure he was bullied/singled out- sure enough to put on a public forum for his parents to possibly see.
and was in ALL the same classes as Andrew including the various different sets kids are put in for subjects like maths and languages.
and/or picked ALL the same GCSE options.
and frequented a forum of a magazine that Andrew was known to like in 2007.
and (though this is just my opinion) was in the top set for English like Andrew and typed like that.
It would be easy to pretend with educated guesses, plus the info Kevin and Glenys gave about Andrew in the news around 2007. Which makes me think it’s maybe just someone messing around.
Just something to think about.
[deleted]
I know, I had a read of the page yesterday. I’m not saying it’s definitely fake, I just think people need to take these comments with a pinch of salt.
I didnt read the thread yet, that you put here but I will, later tonight. However' I have big doubts. In all these yesrs I have never read a word about Andrew being bullied at school. Not one word, and I never heard his family say it either. I can’t put too much hope into with this supposed classmate said, based on his grammar and style of writing. it doesn't even sound like he had any schooling.