Born in USA, live in the UK, have British citizenship. Would like to renounce ASAP. Only issue is, I've never been back to the USA since we left when I was five, and my mum and I have been thinking about going on holiday there this summer to see our old town and a national park. I've heard you shouldn't travel there while trying to renounce? Can I book an appointment now and go to USA before my appointment?
Until you renounce, you are a US citizen, period. Why should you not travel to the US prior to your renunciation? That makes no sense whatsoever. (It's possible you have this mixed up with the recommendation not to act as a US citizen in any capacity when applying for a backdated relinquishment based on a past expatriating act.)
The only potential complication is your passport. If you have a valid US passport, no problem, use that. If not, you can't apply for an ESTA waiver as a US citizen, and someone might notice the US birthplace on your UK passport and ask about citizenship. Technically US citizens must enter with a US passport, but the law isn't enforced, the worst thing that can happen is your being told to obtain a US passport. Actually the worst thing that can happen is the airline not letting you board your flight without a US passport.
Also who knows, by next summer you may be required to provide 5 years' social media history if you enter as a UK citizen. Probably easier to go visit somewhere less restrictive, like Russia, China or Iran.
/s but only just...
yes I saw this... seems preferable to go whilst I still have the US passport and avoid the surveillance!
If you have a valid US passport, you're good to go with presumably minimal interference from the brownshirts.
Oh you’ll still be surveilled, it’s coming for all of us, but they won’t turn you away.
It costs over 2,000 to relinquish your citizenship
What's your point?
Exactly 350 over 2,000, in fact.
Not dramatic at all…asking for social media makes us Iran sure
Hence /s
One additional note. If the reason for your renunciation has anything to do with taxes, consider the following points:
If you dont have an American bank account or an American address to use for investing, you can't invest in the US market but if you live in Europe and you are American you can't open up an investment account with trade Republic or most other banks because of PFICs. Charles schwab will facilitate but not for less than 25k to start. So I'm gonna renounce ASAP. I was hoping the $2350 fee would be lowered but oh well.
Am I misinterpreting this to mean that one with no US assets could evade paying taxes by renouncing just before the point of jail or garnishment?
Yes, completely. You need to be outside the US to renounce. There is no garnishment or collection of penalties outside the US. If you live outside the US, don't file and the IRS won't know a thing.
Also, renunciation does not eliminate past tax debts - but those are not easily collected outside the US.
You’re still a citizen until the renunciation is acted upon. Go and have fun.
Actually no, you lose your citizenship once the oath is sworn (except in very rare circumstances where the request is later denied) and they take your US passport at the appointment so you'd need to travel as non-citizen.
Your a citizen until the process has been completed. The op has not even had their first appointment yet.
Not what I was told at the consulate. You're a citizen until you swear the oath; the CLN is back dated to the day of the appointment.
So lets say I have an appointment in a month from now and fly to the US today? The op said he has not had an appointment yet.
You would still be a US citizen. No one has claimed otherwise.
Yes you’re a citizen. Until you finally and formally renounce the USA is your country.
I can't see why you legally can't.
Because ICE and border control under Trump has violated and ignored all sorts of laws and processes.
But how would they know that the OP is waiting for a renunciation appointment? This was the original question. The consulate does not share their calendar with ICE.
That we know of..
That would be extremely far down the list of possible bad things to worry about.
By demanding 5 years of your social media, which is EXACTLY what the US is doing! 🤦
So don’t post about your renunciation appointment. Duh.
Yeah, if he is white, then he is ok. Otherwise, the law doesn't matter. That's the de facto "law" right now
Why renounce? Seems like it’s more trouble than it’s worth
Key word there is "seems" - you know nothing of the OP's situation.
Is there any point during the process that you shouldn't visit?
No.
If you attempt to visit after the renunciation appointment but before you have your CLN, which can take one or more months to arrive, then you may face some interesting questions on entry. The advice I've seen given is to keep the receipt for the renunciation fee, and produce that if asked about your US birthplace. (Never volunteer information - only if asked.) Note that you will be asked surrender your valid US passport at the appointment, if you have one.
And, obviously, carry a copy of your CLN when travelling to the US, to produce if asked about citizenship due to birthplace. For as long as that's still a thing...
When I did my CLN appointment, they retained my US passport until it was processed. I very nearly had to go to the States because of a family emergency (didn't eventuate), and they specifically told me they would give me my passport back but suspect my CLN application. Once I left the US they would restart it.
The other piece of advice given by consulates is to keep the receipt for the renunciation fee and show that upon entry if asked about a US birthplace on your (non-US) passport.
How many consulaties gave YOU this advice?
The one I went to in Canada, and I heard this story as well from someone who renounced in the UK. It sounds as though they all do things their own way; your experience is something I've never heard of elsewhere, and there's certainly nothing in the Foreign Affairs Manual to suggest returning passports or suspending the process because of impending travel.
It's weird because you cease to be a US citizen upon swearing the oath, and the CLN is backdated to the appointment. The "decision" by the State Department is automatic except in rare cases of suspected coercion or mental incompetence (specifically failure to comprehend the consequences of expatriation). Presumably in these cases one is advised that the decision is pending, but there isn't clear guidance on the subject in the FAM.
So, in fact, you've got the advice once from a single consulate, rather than consulates.
I trust the other source so I feel confident using a plural. Gtherwise given that I can only renounce once, it would indeed need to be singular.
why not?
Just curious why you dont get dual citizenship
UK is going to the dumps lmao. Why would you renounce and keep it as a backup option
Well, for a whole host of reasons they may have no realistic prospect of living well in the US, meanwhile their US birthplace is potentially compromising their ability to save and invest in the UK, thanks to FATCA.
People are only willing to see what is right in front of them.
This time next year, we might well have an incoming Democratic Congress (while Trump’s historic unpopularity only keeps growing; both will happen if current trends continue), while the UK might be close to getting PM Nigel Farage.
The problems with the USA are HARDLY limited to Trump. The Democratic Party is also a capitalist party
Another Trump supporter (yes, even if you hate him.)
Who is the Trump supporter you’re referring to? Sorry, I’m kind of confused by your comment.
You are. You are helping Trump, whenever you say Democrats are just as bad.
No, not at all. Unionizing, community activism, and engaging in struggles for people’s power are ways of fighting against trump and his allies.
Which is all gonna be worth shit, if you don’t also (!!!) vote for candidates who will still let us have unions and do this sort of civic engagement.
We need to do it all: vote (for the least bad option, if you prefer) AND all that other stuff.
If you, however, keep telling people (at least implicitly) that voting doesn’t matter, you’re being part of the problem.
Why would voting not matter? I’m very confused by your comment, and I’m wondering if you meant to respond to someone else. A problem I see is that some people seem to think that voting has this magical power. We’ve been voting for democrats for as long as I’ve been able to because the electoral system in this country is so bad, we have no other choice. But what has this achieved for us? In countries with participatory democracy, folks have an actual say in the running of their country instead of just picking a name.
Also, I do love your username :)
(Proceeds to make a case for why voting doesn’t matter in the U.S.)
Okay, then. 🤷
As for participatory democracy, what exactly do you mean? Which countries, precisely, offers better opportunities to participate in their democracy?
Note that I hold multiple citizenships and vote in more countries than just the U.S.
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You’re just carrying water for Trump at this point. Shame on you!
Are you implying that I don’t think Trump is an absolute piece of shit? If you think that voting is what’s gonna save this country next year instead of mass general strikes or violence I have a bridge to sell you.
I’m stating outright that if you’re suggesting that Democrats would be as bad as Republicans, you’re only helping the MAGA fascists.
And therefore people should stay citizen of a country that has been deteriorating for a quarter century, no matter what?
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If citizens of your country have taken the decision that this can be better pursued elsewhere, then why try to stop them?
I agree with you. It’s a typical liberal way of thinking (I’m a leftist) where progress has to take 500 years and it’s definitely always going to get better someday we just have to play nice, not ruffle feathers, and once we get some milquetoast center-right democrats to hold the line for us (they don’t) we can push them further left. It’s barely even about Trumpism for me anymore. We’re run by oligarchs and we have been the entire time I’ve been alive. Democrats didn’t make things affordable when they had control of the entire government. And when I say affordable I mean bringing us back to at least the 90s level of buying power. Even Obama didn’t do that. He bailed out car manufacturers though. The lesser of two evils still sucks. And the response people are having to what I’m saying gives me zero hope for real change which further reinforces why my partner and I are getting out. Let people leave.
A US voter can choose between the let's-not-rock-the-boat party, and the child-raping fascists who are fully prepared to go Guantanamo Bay against anyone they don't like.
If you look at Nigel Farage, someone who was used in this thread as a sort of boogeyman for what *might* happen in the UK: the man is despicable of course, but his ideas on the NHS for example are actually to the LEFT of what the Democrats in the US are going for.
I didn’t say that. I said when dems have congress nothing gets better. It stays the same-ish, instead of getting worse. But it still gets worse. Just more slowly.
That isn’t true, either. Under the Biden administration, Congress has been as productive as never before.
(And yes, I was very critical of Biden’s foreign policy, esp. vis-à-vis Israel/Palestine.)
I’m talking about Trump with a dem congress. Not the Biden admin. The topic was “next November there will be a democrat congress” — the Biden administration was an entire presidential election cycle later. You’re actually proving my point that those two years of Trump with a dem congress accomplished nothing.
Which would still be infinitely better than a MAGA Congress with a Trump.
A Dem Congress would give Democrats subpoena power and the power to block almost anything Trump wants to do. It’d be the beginning of the end of Trumpism.
You don’t need to go to the us to renounce citizenship. You can do so at the local embassy /consulate
You cannot in fact go to the US to renounce citizenship, it must be done at a consulate. Also, read the OP's question more carefully.