My partner and I have a lot of questions, there are a few different places that we think we could logistically work out, but we're looking for someone that we can consult with who has helped others successfully immigrate out of the US and into Europe. GTFO Tours looks promising, but I'm curious if people who aren't necessarily looking to use the DAFT law to immigrate to the Netherlands have had success with them.
I've been living abroad for most of the last 20+ years. I only heard of GTFO about two days ago. Someone had posted an article that mentioned the company (I never read the article). This post is the 3rd one I've seen asking about GTFO since I first heard of the company 2 days ago. So don't think that GTFO has been around a long time or is well-known among immigrants. It just sounds like someone trying to capitalize on all of the Americans desperate to escape the USA, and probably taking advantage of American's relative ignorance about how moving abroad works, along the way.
100%. They created this company in order to get to NL using DAFT. They probably have connections and information gained through their own experience, sure, but from what I’ve seen, if you’re looking to use them for anything else other than their address book of DAFT specialists, it’s much better to go elsewhere. They advertise as having offerings for information on other countries but the samples they provide on the website are laughable for the cost.
I’m concerned that all their capitalizing is going to lead to increased scrutiny on the DAFT program and make it harder or impossible for future folks to take that route. Claiming to every major news outlet they can find (they’re increasingly frequently posting about articles in Dutch news too) that anyone can just waltz over there on a whim when tensions are already high about immigration probably isn’t the best look. I’m sure it’ll make them plenty of money in the short term, but it could hurt everyone, including them, in the long term.
I mean, for the Netherlands it’s either the DAFT or you get sponsored as a high-skilled migrant by one of the few approved sponsor companies. Not sure what a consultant is going to do, apart from taking money from you.
I asked a friend group this exact question the other day and got the response from one that they were unbelievably expensive and felt almost predatory in their practices. Really playing on the fears that many feel right now as they try to "gtfo".
I can't speak for my own experiences, just what this person told me they felt after doing the introduction call with the company.
Edit: there are many law firms and immigration specialists who will assist with pinpointing the best visa for you and doing the paperwork for you for a very low (comparatively) cost. I think my friend said GTFO quoted 15k for theirs. My lawyer who did my DNV was less than 2k. It may also depend on your visa type and it's complexities.
Sounds like they’re similar to LuxNomads, which charges a similarly bonkers fee for the DNV. The person running LN also only recently immigrated to Spain and is now somehow an expert on Spanish immigration and the DNV.
That is sheer highway robbery. The Spanish law firm I used cost 800EU for the entire process. If this company is charging 15k then it better include a visa, bank account, TIE, NIE and a year's worth of rent on a flat. Absurd.
It’s outrageous! They provide “coaching” but that’s not worth 15k wtf.
Edit: apparently my information is outdated, they now charge 19-23k!!!
19-23k is literally insane. Im now curious to see what exactly they are offering because there is no amount of coaching in the world that could justify that price tag.
Apparently it includes a car picking you up at the airport. That’s the “lux” part.
She also tries to claim you can be tax resident in Dubai while living in Spain under the DNV, which is not legal. Just a massive grifter all around.
I would associate Lux with Luxembourg rather than Spain haha
Literally what I thought the first time I ran across her (am Luxembourgish).
Would you DM me the name of the law firm? Spain is specifically where my partner and I are considering, since he's Mexican and qualifies for the expedited citizenship process.
Sent!
Hi! Would you mind DMing me the name of the law firm you used as well?
Could you send me the name of the firm as well? I’d really appreciate it!!
If that lawyer was for DNV in Spain, can I get that contact info?
Could you DM me the name of that law firm as well? Spain is at the top of our list and we'd love the help!
I agree you can just schedule a consultation with an immigration law firm in your targeted country to discuss current visa options. We did that and it wasn’t very expensive.
GTFO tours seems to be grift. Always remember some americans are either grifters themselves or don't realize they are being grifted unfortunately.
Yeah, I'm disappointed that the New Yorker didn't do their due diligence with this one. The article really talked them up.
I doubt The New Yorker, of all magazines, would leave out of their GTFO Tours profile that it's a grift.
To be honest, I never heard of them until only a couple of days ago when someone posted an article on this subreddit that mentioned that company.
Yeah, that's where I heard of them too, I read the New Yorker article. Honestly I'm a little disappointed that that journalist didn't do a little more research into that org to make sure they weren't grifters. My partner and I have been planning our exit for about a year now, and that article felt like great timing, especially since the article portrayed that org as super legit and having good intentions.
The owners of GTFO have the wildest ideas ever. Like petition to waive a need of speaking dutch for doctors because “in the Netherlands everybody speaks english anyway”
Plus they are just grifters. All they know can be easily find in the internet, they have a very aggressive advertisement approach in the expat focused groups and they overcharge for what they provide
This. The wanting to waive needing to speak Dutch to work in health care really rubbed me the wrong way. If I’m moving to another country I’m going to try learning the language regardless of it being an English speaking country because that’s just the respectful thing to do. But then also, you’re in their country so most of your patients would be Dutch and I’m sure not all of them speak English.
They seem very predatory in the expat groups and seem to feed into peoples fear about the current state of affairs in the US.
Left the US 6 years ago to live in Spain. I chose Spain because I know the country well and speak the language. In other words, I came here because I knew I wanted to be here. And, as is usually the case, even knowing the country, culture and language well, there have been difficult adjustments to make. There always are. I just don’t think asking a third party to help identify where to live is a great idea. You’ll have to face innumerable challenges wherever you land, but it’s much easier if, in addition to wanting to leave somewhere, you really have reasons to want to move to your chosen destination. It’s hard enough to immigrate anywhere, but not having some firm reason to be in a particular place can make it much harder. Long way of saying that most companies like this are grifters. You need to identify where you want to go, or even where you legally can go, then take some trips at least!
That's a great insight, I appreciate it! I think you're right!
I think you could look into Expatsi as well. They have a wider range and longer history. GTFO is pretty new and Dutch focused.
I am planning to use the DAFT visa so I am in a Facebook group with GTFO tours. Never used them because I have lived abroad before and am not someone who wastes $ on things like that. But, its targeted at Americans who have 1. Never been anywhere 2. Want to leave quickly 3. Dont want to do any research themselves.
Many things for expats are targeted and priced this way as Americans will pay for convenience. I had to hire a maakelar to help me find an apartment because this is standard in NL and even that bugs me.
We stumbled our way through the DAFT process on our own earlier this year (my partner and I are already consultants and didn’t have a place to live in the US anyway) and there was no clear consensus on anything whenever we went into municipal offices or called IND with questions. We actually did so much of the process out of order; for example, getting a BSN # was one of our first steps. I didn’t fully understand the process, which is why it happened this way.
Apparently not many people used DAFT until this year, and somehow we got by. I wouldn’t say it was the easiest process but I was definitely expecting for there to be more roadblocks than there were. It took like 4-6 weeks for approval once we submitted the application. Americans are given ~6 months after approval to complete administrative things like setting up the business bank account, establishing the business, etc. We worked with an expat-friendly makelaar to find a place ultimately, because I had gone to a few open houses and decided I’d rather spend money to work with someone who could vouch for us than compete with hundreds of other people who are looking for an apartment.
Like many people on this thread, I would suggest a lawyer based in the place you would like to move to.
You should talk to a legal professional in each country you want to go to. And seeing as you’re posting on Reddit I’m going to assume you know how to do a bit of your own background research on housing situation and other things. You can save yourself some money. As an over 30 American with no desirable job skills, I can tell you DAFT is by far the easiest cheapest way to immigrate based on all my research.
Czech Republic is easier and cheaper IMO. I live here now myself. Could have gone to the Netherlands but picked Czech Republic.
Good healthcare for trans people too if you pay for private care, I’m trans (I see the heart on your avatar) everyone’s been cool about it, no issues at all, I see more visibly trans people in Prague than in Boston. There are over 3500 people in the Queer Expats in Prague Facebook group which is fairly niche lol
The typical method is to get a visa with a trade license for freelance English teaching and then find another job from there once you’re a resident, or keep freelancing some other way (freelance English teaching doesn’t tend to pay well)
The Netherlands is insanely expensive with a serious housing crisis even outside Amsterdam, and DAFT can be complicated. Prague is expensive but other cities like Brno aren’t. Prague outskirts are fine too.
You’re right that Czech Republic is cheaper, but the process is not as easy as DAFT. My partner and I were living in a friend’s place in Prague earlier this year with the hopes of getting a visa, but after meeting with an immigration expert, it seemed like our best options were either to find someone to hire us, go back to uni, or work in tech. My partner would have had no problem, having connections there and being fluent in Czech, but I would have had to upend my career (we are both consultants). Also, we couldn’t just get the visa for my partner and do a family reunification for me, because they don’t recognise heterosexual partnerships.
Beyond that, all paperwork and foreign documents need to be translated into Czech, which is not the case for the Netherlands, where English is an official language. DAFT was confusing at times, but anyone we interacted with ultimately wanted to help us, which was not our experience in the Czech Republic. No hate at all, I love it there, just my experience.
Great article about them in the New Yorker last week. Worth a read.