My wife and I host Thanksgiving and Christmas every year, usually on the day of or the Saturday after the holiday (alternating so we can spend time with our in laws on the day of every other year). This year my brother said that he won’t be able to make it and we’ll have to move it to January 3rd instead since that’s his and his wife’s next free day that we’re also off work. I asked him what was going on the day we had set aside for Christmas dinner and he said that his wife was anticipating a long week at work starting that Sunday so she wanted to take Saturday off. My wife does all of the planning, shopping, prepping, cooking, and cleaning. We offered for them to come over in the evening after dinner was ready so all they would do is eat dinner, open presents, and then they could leave within a couple of hours. They said no, they decided they’re taking the day off and we’ll have to wait another week. I wouldn’t have been as upset, but spending Christmas together (or as close to Christmas is possible) is incredibly important to our mom and she’s always upset about not having it the day of.
So, am I the asshole for telling my brother and sister-in-law they need to suck it up for one day and come to Christmas on Saturday with everyone else?
EDIT: thank you all for the responses. I called my brother and said that I was sorry for being so harsh earlier and that we would have dinner at 5, presents at 6:30. If they can make it great, otherwise we’ll have them over in January to make up for missing it.
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Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.
NTA
If they can’t make it, that’s their problem. Why does everyone else need to rearrange their own plans?
THIS
ALL OF THIS!!! I personally get so tired of having to schedule around when it is convenient for everyone else except me.
Actually, OP is demanding that they attend on Christmas, not just refusing to rearrange.
You mean “demanding” they attend on the same day everyone else was already planning to be there? Yeah, sounds reasonable.
They said no to the date that OP had "set aside". OP is telling them they have to attend. How is that fair? If they don't feel they can commit to the date, that's fine, but they also don't get to tell OP when to host!
Where is op demanding though? Op seems happy to compromise and said bro and sil can come in the evening after dinner is ready, to eat open presents and go home within a couple of hours. And it's not even on Christmas, Christmas is on Thursday
Wherr they " told brother and sister-in-law they need to suck it up for one day and come to Christmas on Saturday with everyone else"
Love how I'm getting down voted because people haven't bothered to read to the end 😆
Op isnt demanding that.. its a pre set schedule by the family. It seems that everyone accepted, and that brother just now disagrees after agreeing to come
Seems he gave a date and they said no. OP said they need to suck it up, while brother said to postpone. Everyone's an AH in this situation... though it seems they've come to that conclusion, themselves.
And when you get together in January get take out or go to a restaurant b/c your wife shouldn 't get stuck doing all that cooking again.
And unless it's super important to your wife that she does everything, get in there and take over some of the prep work or clean up!
That doesn't just mean volunteering to help out and waiting to be allocated a task, choose something and do it.
NTA
Tell them they'll be missed, and have Christmas at Christmas.
When THEY do all the work of hosting, they can schedule what they like. What nerve!
ESH. Your brother for trying to dictate when someone else hosts a dinner. You for this: "My wife does all of the planning, shopping, prepping, cooking, and cleaning."
If she's doing it all herself, why are you taking credit for hosting? Paying for groceries doesn't count. Existing in the house doesn't count. Know what counts? Chopping veggies! And whatever else makes her day easier while she caters to your family.
I’ll say I don’t want my husband doing any shopping, prepping, or cooking when I make pa large meal for thanksgiving or Christmas.
It just makes things way more complicated and he doesn’t know how I need things chopped so it takes more work to tell him while I do other stuff because I would still have to keep an eye and make sure it’s being done how I need it to be.
And trying to have him shop means I have to worry that he isn’t getting exactly what I need and then he has to call a bunch of times for alternatives and it’s a mess. It’s quicker, easier, and less stressful for me to do it.
Just because OP, or my husband, aren’t doing those tasks doesn’t mean they aren’t involved in hosting.
In fact, they can play an important role in welcoming guests when they arrive, diverting them away from kitchen while I finish up, handing any non-kitchen issues, etc.
It’s not great to assume someone’s an asshole just because they aren’t in the kitchen helping. Plenty of people want the “non cook” to stay away from the kitchen because it disrupts the flow they have going on.
He can do the cleaning though! I hate having someone else underfoot in the kitchen, but if she's doing all the cooking he needs to step up and clean the house before guests come over.
But then he can take on other tasks if help isn’t needed cooking. He can shop, he can scrub the toilets and sweep and mop the floors and tidy the house. He can take care of some laundry (even just his own if she’s particular). If he’s not capable to do any of these things correctly then yes that’s AH behavior for not contributing to the running of your own household at all.
With my husband, i don’t want him to shop because often there are ingredients out of stock. It’s way more complicated to have to answer a bunch of calls where he’s trying to describe what they do have in stock or asking where things are because it’s impossible to find a store clerk that isn’t busy during holiday season.
It’s actually way easier and less stressful for me to go on an early morning since I know exactly what I need and I also know what substitutes I can use. Trying to relay that over the phone to someone in a busy store is so anxiety inducing.
And it’s not that he’s incompetent, it’s just that he isn’t the cook so he doesn’t know the ins and outs of the ingredients in each dish and what is truly needed.
My husband absolutely does other stuff like helping with dishes and packing leftovers and general tidying up after though.
This! I do the bulk of the prep for Christmas, which my husband is always appreciative of. In return, he picks up a lot of housework duties in the run up to Christmas so I'm not burnt out.
I do the kitchen prep work and planning for having a dinner party but my husband hosts by making sure the table is set up, cleaning the living room area, getting water in the glasses, pulling out serving dishes for me, and doing dishes between bouts of cooking. I think what this person is saying, though I could be wrong, is that hosting starts before a guest arrives and should be a team effort and op seems to imply it isn't a team effort. OP does at least acknowledge how much work it is for his wife and that's something.
It seems like if you're planning to be together for a long time, it might be worth helping him figure this stuff out.
On the other hand, I find myself making entire dishes by myself, rather than trying to contribute to on-going cooking by another person. This may or may not be as helpful and efficient as I think it is.
My husband skills are better suited elsewhere. I’m a good cook and I have a specific plan for recipes. My husband…he likes to “wing it” in the kitchen.
That isn’t what I want when I have a recipe in mind. (He once decided to try orange juice in his eggs because - “what could it hurt to try it once. If it’s bad I’ll never do it again”
Sooo I don’t plan on encouraging that when I’m craving classic dishes for the holidays. He can do the stuff that gives me anxiety while I am in my happy place in the kitchen where no one bothers me 🤣
Some people are just that way, true. My step-father did all holiday feast prep and cooking, and aside from me, shooed all helpers out of the kitchen.
Why does your husband have trouble with these basic tasks?
Some people just aren’t cook-savvy. Just like I’m not good with tools. He wouldn’t send me to Home Depot to find a specific screw he needs for woodworking.
Like I don’t do woodwork, so why would you want to send me shopping for woodworking tools when I have zero idea what they’ll be used for in the project? Or the nuances of the types of screws and things.
It’s the same thing for the cooking. My ingredients are my “tools” and the “project” is creating a delicious meal.
We set a time and date. Everyone is invited and who can’t make it, don’t.
NTA.The whole family shouldn't have to rearrange their plans just because your SIL wants to take the day off. All she has to do is show up, eat and open gifts. It's not like manual labor is involved. She can rest all day before dinner, or just skip the event altogether.
I agree they shouldn’t have to rearrange plans for one person, but we don’t know SIL’s reasons for not feeling up to it. Personally, even though I really love my family, time with them is draining on me as an introvert with some chronic health conditions. Just sitting there being overstimulated by a group of people is exhausting. Sometimes you just need a day to bed rot- not shower or worry about looking presentable, not sit in traffic, not make small talk, etc. If her work is really going to be intense that week, I can see why she doesn’t want to go. BUT that doesn’t give them the right to demand a different date.
In summary: Let me ruin everyone else’s plans and expectations to appease 1-2 ppl.
Nope, NTA.
"We are having Christmas on x date at y time. If you can't make it, that's fine. Merry Christmas"
Also, help your wife and clean up since she is doing all the hard work
NTA- If they can't make it, it's on them. They rest of the family doesn't have to change their schedule for their convenience. Especially since some people have to work. Just because they're off doesn't the rest of the family is. They either join you on the set date or they miss this year.
Nta have your own christmas dinner celebration. Your entitled brother doesnt get to change when holidays happen. Your life doesnt revolve around him. You all could have another dinner together in January and he can pretend thats christmas all he wants.
But let the entitled in-laws host it and do all the work.
Of course. January third can be New Christmas hosted by them.
No, NTA here. If your in-laws won't take a few hours out of a Saturday to celebrate Christmas, that's on them. Don't change the celebration date for two people out of the family.
NTA
Curious why he thinks his one vote changes the entire holiday dinner plan?
Sorry you can't make it brother, we'll get together in the new year.
If this makes your mom upset, then your mom can talk to your brother. You have enough on your plate.
NTA. They’re free to not come but this is not a good reason to move it.
They are welcome to request that, and you are welcome to say no. I don't know what your Christmas gatherings are like that it would be so stressful just be there a couple of hours. Maybe just have them over for presents and they can leave before dinner?
NTA. You’re the host. Tell them the date and time. If they come great, if they don’t, their loss. You can’t try to accommodate everyone.
NTA anticipating a rough week two weeks ahead is fine, deciding that the whole family has to cater to you for it is not. SIL can take her needed day off. Her husband can bring the presents and kids and bring her home a plate and her gifts.
ESH. If he doesn't want to attend that day, you can't force him. That said, he also doesn't get to dictate when you host a Christmas party.
NTA, not even a little bit. They aren’t even busy that day…that is crazy.
NTA at all. However you are going to have to accept it graciously if they choose not to come. They are out of line to expect you to delay things until the 3rd of January.
So we know that you are an AH.
After consulting with your spouse, you should have told your brother that the event was going ahead as planned, whether he's there or not. Instead, you played his stupid game.
ESH, except your poor wife who should do whatever she wants this holiday season and the rest of you can get on board with what she decides or be left at the station.
I do need to note I said she does everything because I feel like I don’t do anything, but I do help where I can. Prepping veggies, arranging the table, etc. I was in a car accident and was injured to the point I can’t stand for more than a few seconds at a time, but I do whatever I can while sitting with her.
Some people also get satisfaction from hosting/ cooking! My brother and SIL host most family dinners. They love to cook and turn down all offers of help, so I provide assistance by loitering around making pithy commentary. As long as you and your wife are communicating and she's feeling appreciated and satisfied, you're all good.
Then it would seem an odd choice to tell brother and SIL that they can come in January, presumably when your wife will have to prep, shop, cook and clean for the third time in two months.
If you wanted to make things easier for your wife, then you could have told brother that his options are attend for Christmas as planned, or he and SIL can do everything to host for you and your spouse in January.
Where did he say he accepted his brother’s Jan date? OP did exactly what you said.
Here.
I think you misunderstood. Pretty sure he was saying this is when we are having Christmas stuff on Christmas, and if you can’t make it, unfortunate and we will have to see you in January another time. But not that they were moving their Christmas celebration.
I misunderstood nothing. He clearly stated that he would host them in January to make up for them missing Christmas. The obvious implication is that OP's wife will have to shop, clean and cook in order to entertain them.
There is a big difference between "we can meet up at your place in January" and "we'll have them over in January" when the wife is the one doing all the work, not OP, and not BIL/SIL.
I mean over in January could just mean ordering in a pizza..
Then brother can host OP at brother's place. Pizza delivery is widely available.
This is correct. I told them we would host them for dinner but we’d get pizza or some other take out. Two diners a year is enough for my wife even though I know she’d be willing to do it again and I don’t take that for granted. I’m very lucky.
I don’t think that’s necessarily the implication. As someone who hosts huge Feast of the Seven Fishes and Christmas meals every year, I’ll also point out that holiday meal shopping and prep is wildly different than a regular meal.
YTA: It is an invitation, not a summons. They can't make it to the dinner. Telling them to suck it up would be asshole behaviour. Just say "I am sorry that we will miss you" and go on with the dinner.
I do think them saying something like: 'let's get together in the new year to make up for it' is acceptable, as long as they are not expecting you to still do the full Christmas experience again for their benefit.
It sounds like they want op and his wife to move the full Christmas experience to January 3rd for everyone because they refuse to come on the Saturday op is hosting.
Per the op: "my brother said ... we'll have to move it to January 3rd"
We can only assume what he means by “it”.
Does ‘move it’ mean move them getting together, move the family dinner, or move the Christmas celebrations, etc.
I mean, if the brother and sil are invited over to Christmas celebrations, and all the conversations are about the Christmas celebrations, I don't think it's very ambiguous what "it" refers to. And the family dinner is their Christmas celebrations.
Like if i text someone "we're having Christmas dinner on saturday at 6pm, let me know if you can be there" and they respond "you're going to have to move it because we can't make it" i don't know what other "it" they would be implying
Sure, in your example it is more obvious. But we don’t actually have their text thread.
If the brother sent a message like “Hey, sorry, we won’t be able to visit you on Saturday. We have to push it back a week”.
That is more unclear around whether they want to only reschedule a visit vs the full Christmas Dinner experience.
If their expectation is the full Xmas experience, they are obviously assholes. But it isn’t clear that that is what they are asking for.
I mean that's what op is literally asking about in the title and the post, moving Christmas dinner, so ... seems pretty obvious that that is what his brother wants to happen since that is what op is referring to, but ... ok.
Also the fact that op related what his brother said as, "We (op and wife) will have to move it to Jan 3rd" rather than "they (bro and sil) will have to move it (which doesn't even make sense they arent moving anything they'd just be coming) on Jan 3rd" indicates to me that they want op to move the dinner
NTA, you're the one hosting, and as such you get to choose when to host that best suits the majority of those invited, if the can't make it, they can't make it, an invite isn't a summons, so they can choose not to come if they don't want to, but they shouldn't be telling you to change it to a day in January and making everyone else wait for Christmas dinner and presents.
NTA-its incredibly rude that just because they don't want to leave the house for a few hours in the evening that they demand everyone move their schedule around them. If they don't like it, then that's on them for expecting everyone to cater to their every whim
NTA
Just remember, it's them making their decision. Not them making your decisions.
And let them know it's going to be great having your second Christmas celebration at their place.
Yes and no. Hosting is a massive task and it's for multiple people in the family I'm assuming, so it's completely unreasonable for your brother to expect you to move the event to a day that suits just him and his wife specifically. But your wording sucked, too. You could've just said, No worries, catch you at the next family event, and left it there. He's not obligated to attend your event and you're not obligated to host again for his benefit, but none of that should be communicated with animosity
They should just...not come instead of insisting on a different day. His wife has a good reason to not come the original day. The world doesn't revolve around your mom and they should be able to relax over Christmas guilt free. ESH.
NTA. Sounds like you've solved this problem in a good sort of way.
Tell them you are sorry they chose to not come to Christmas dinner on the day you are hosting it for the rest of the family. The plans are set, too bad they are choosing to no longer be available but as everyone else is, you are not going to delay the celebration until after New Yrs. If your mother has a problem she can share that with your brother.
You're NTA. They are.
NTA. Tell them what day you are hosting Christmas and they can attend or not.
NTA
My biggest thing is that if someone can't make an event for whatever reason, unless they are the centre of the event, they just have to suck it up and miss out.
You can have them over for a smaller dinner or go to a restaurant or something on January 3rd if that's what you and your wife want, but you absolutely do not move the event for them. Especially for something so small as wanting a day off, not even actually having prior commitments.
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My wife and I host Thanksgiving and Christmas every year, usually on the day of or the Saturday after the holiday (alternating so we can spend time with our in laws on the day of every other year). This year my brother said that he won’t be able to make it and we’ll have to move it to January 3rd instead since that’s his and his wife’s next free day that we’re also off work. I asked him what was going on the day we had set aside for Christmas dinner and he said that his wife was anticipating a long week at work starting that Sunday so she wanted to take Saturday off. My wife does all of the planning, shopping, prepping, cooking, and cleaning. We offered for them to come over in the evening after dinner was ready so all they would do is eat dinner, open presents, and then they could leave within a couple of hours. They said no, they decided they’re taking the day off and we’ll have to wait another week. I wouldn’t have been as upset, but spending Christmas together (or as close to Christmas is possible) is incredibly important to our mom and she’s always upset about not having it the day of.
So, am I the asshole for telling my brother and sister-in-law they need to suck it up for one day and come to Christmas on Saturday with everyone else?
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You’re not an AH for not moving the date around, but you will be an AH if you insist that they come/get upset they can’t make it. I understand where your sister in law is coming from. Family gatherings are fun, but they can be stressful. If she’s already had a long week at work it would be more energy on top of everything else to get dressed up and socialize. Even if they do come on the original date, your sister in law may be tired/upset and kill the mood a bit. Personally, I think you’ll probably get the best result if you give your brother a little grace and move the dinner. The important thing is that you’re celebrating with your family, yeah? I wouldn’t really mind waiting a week. It’s fine if that’s too big a deal for you, but that does mean your brother may not show and you’re gonna have to be okay with that.
Some jobs require a lot of time (and o/t) at the end of the year. Some people need time and space to charge their batteries. (introverts for example) Several years ago my husband and I stopped going to his family's Christmas Eve party. Not because it wasn't nice, not because we don't live them. It's just too much. They all gather and have a lovely time, we stay home and relax.
Y kind of TA, but your last edit was spot on.
It's their right to not show up to your house, just like it's your right not to postpone it until the new year....
Saw the update. Perfect.
I think your mother is the issue. Getting upset that people can't be there a certain day is ridiculous. Life happens.
Let them host you in January. If your wife is mostly responsible for the event in your home at Chirstmas, don't impose a second event on her. Your brother and his wife can host, and you and your wife can better enjoy the second event.
NTA for hoping they would simply show up on the day. Next year, and in years to come, let them host. And as much as I agree with your mother that celebrating on an alternate day is less festive/meaningful, since she is not hosting, she can put up with your brother and his wife's planning once in a while.
NTA I host my in-laws’ family Christmas every year and there’s one couple who always has an excuse why they can’t make it. The entertaining part is hearing what excuse they come up with every year. Don’t move Christmas for them.
YTA-light, YTA-looking at you mom. Listen, it's a tough world out there. Somebody had the guts to say that they ate their limit. I would go back to mom and challenge her: tradition or people you love?
YTA. Yes, telling them to suck it up is an AH thing to say. Nothing puts me in the holiday spirit and want to join a party like being insulted for turning down the invite! It's an invite, not a summons. If they can't make it (and yes judging and disregarding their reason, which they don't have to tell you, also makes you an AH), they can't make it. If you don't want to/can't move the date, then don't.
Christmas doesn’t need to revolve around the most inconvenient schedule, especially when it clearly matters to your mom and the rest of the family.
He can host a get together in January.
Yta. They didn't need an explanation but they gave you one. She will be worn out physically and me tally and needs a day off. Also what would you have done had they said they will be spending Christmas with her side of the family? Also berated them for that? Yes Christmas is a big deal to you. But you need to accept other people have other priorities.
Reading your edit, why would you have them over in January after reading the responses??
I wouldn't move xmas but they don't have to attend either. You can all catch up after xmas.
Use the Julian calendar. Christmas is January 7th. So you won't miss Christmas dinner.
What's the issue with a January Christmas? Don't the orthodox celebrate Christmas in January?
But they do suck for trying to dictate the event
NTA
YTA