Should've looked on reddit before booking an Airbnb owned under Vacasa rentals. The company is SO shady. I booked a refundable that was fully refundable until a certain date. Literally an hour after the refundable period expired, the host messages me that there are almost $200 more in fees compared to what was on the original listing. I immediately complained, but the entire contact Vacasa department seems to be either AI or extremely robotic humans. I told Airbnb, and they said that all I could do is cancel for the partial refund and then report the host.
I ended up still going because it was going to cost me more than the fees to book a last minute new place and because I figured I could fight with Airbnb for some money back. We had an issue with the rental and the 'host' responds to every message with 'we are going to contact your local team.' Well, there appears to be no local team because that was 12 hours ago and no one has reached out.
I've been staying in Airbnbs for 15 years now and this is my worst ever experience.
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I also recently had a bad experience with Vacasa. It definitely seemed like a bot was messaging me when I was locked out, and no one ever came to the phone when I had been on hold for an hour.
I stayed in one of their "house boats" and the whole thing went just like that. Partial refund given. I spent the whole weekend with them on the phone at all hours. No VACA for me. I sent copious pictures, didn't make a dent.
I dealt with Vacasa a few years back on a beach rental and it was quite possibly the worst management company I’ve ever dealt with. It was beyond belief miserable dealing with them and they managed to escape refunding us a chunk of money by just not responding.
Dont do any API-connected hosts.
They have contracts with AIrBNB to basically make up their own rules and AidBNB won't do shit to help you out.
Oh.. and if any of those fees are refundable, they wont be refunded to you until after the review deadline has passed.
It's extortion.
What does API stand for? But wow good to know why Airbnb has been SO unhelpful with this
Application Programming Interface
They will often say on the listing somewhere. Could be buried but sometimes they are proud of it.
Long post ahead -
Here's their scam... and its totally legit according to air bnb.
They are hosting firms / groups with like hundreds of listings. They group them together and create a contract with AirBNB that allows them special privileges outside of Air BNBs rules. AirBNB essentially goes hands-off in these scenarios.
They are the types that make you sign a separate contract and will hide that deeeeeeeep down in the listing rules -even preventing some comments from letting you know. Air BNB specifically prohibits outside contracts and deposits - unless they are an API host.
These contracts essentially will keep you from being able to leave honest reviews and will open you up, open you up to a ton of likely not-legal (but i'd be scared to test it) contractual negotiations including lawsuits for things like the house collapsing for zero reason, any injuries at all for any reason, and bad reviews - essentially extortion
I stayed with an API host. Made a reservation 5 months out. Immediately got a contract to sign that required an extra $1000 deposit. The contract and deposit are outlawed by AirBNB. So I tried to cancel. On the front listing page, you have to scroll down below everything to the house rules. At the end of that is a link to show more. At the end of that is a link for "additional rules" within the additional rules they said they are an API connected host and required the contract/deposit.
Air BNB allows them to hide this and actually probably encourages it. They dont even go into details on AirBNBs own site
It should be the first thing within the listing.
Anyhow, I tried to cancel within 5 minutes and she said OK I can give you 50% of your money back. Mind you this is within 5 minutes and over 5 months from the rental date.
It's clearly a trap - disguised as a way to protect hosts -but also as a way for AirBNB to drop all responsibility and just be their own version of Hotels'com or something.
Anyhow, after 2 months of frustration and calling AirBNB every day, their customer service stopped accepting my calls. We stayed at the hosts house and eveything was fine... except their Hot tub was beat to hell and on a rickety deck basically overhanging a cliff. It was falling apart would shake everytime we walked outside.
If we had gotten injured by the deck collapsing - we wouldn/'t be able to sue and Air BNB is cool with that. So watch out.
Wow. This is good to know. This should be a post on this sub and the various large travel and nomad subs.
I already scour each listing for hidden bs, but this is next level. Even worse than that post where the host hid the need for a 4x4 to access the property deep in the listing under the local features and attractions section.
It’s not hidden deep. Each section only allows so many characters to be written so they must add to the next section. It’s not that hard to click through and read. I find many places in Mexico, Costa Rica, or rural like mountains in NC suggests 4x4.
Ha! I saw that in a listing recently, too. The last line said that you need a 4x4 to access the property.
More than just a post, it should be pinned by the mods in the sidebar. This is egregious and horrifying.
It’s also not true at all. I’m an API connected host, yes we have a rental agreement that we send out but Airbnb doesn’t consider anything in it enforceable unless it is also in the House Rules or the description. We just use it to be sure guests receive the same information, consistently, regardless of their choice of booking platform.
The deposit also works effectively the exact same way as a damage claim, you have to submit a request for deductions and Airbnb will decide whether you have a legitimate claim or not.
I’m not saying there aren’t shitty companies out there that do shady stuff, but any host could do the exact same thing (only offer 50% refund after booking 5 minutes ago with the appropriate Airbnb cancellation policy selected).
With regard to their talk of the wobbly deck and potential injury, the hold harmless clause applies to the agent (the API connected host) the property owner and their insurance would still be able to be claimed against. If the deck’s condition was due to negligence by the agent due to their contract with the owner, the hold harmless clause can’t apply… because negligence.
Happy to answer further questions if anyone has them! 😊
Thanks for clarifying! Now I know to look more closely at listings to avoid scams like yours. Forcing a bullshit rental agreement in the hopes that if something happens it discourages claims is even more egregious than what was suggested in the above post.
It’s a document to communicate information consistently and the guest signs it to confirm receipt of said information. Again, nothing in the document is enforceable unless it is also included in the House Rules, same as your listing.
Ah... now I know why you are responding and downvoting so much here... you are an API scam host.
If you want to be clear.. then quit hiding that you are an API host on your listings and put it up front. Quit hiding extra contracts way down the list of rules.
IF you think that would sway people from renting with you... then you are attempting to trick them. Great job host!!
And no.. Air BNB will not get involved because it would be problems with the contracts your teams created together.
I’m downvoting you because you are spreading misinformation. We are completely upfront about absolutely everything at my small family business that has been the gold standard of STR operators in our rural community for 25 years.
Again I don’t deny there are bad operators out there but to imply that it is simply because of a software tool that allows two different computer programs that are written in different languages to communicate with each other is misinformation and ridiculous. That is all an API is.
API connected means they are outside software to connect them to multiple platforms like Vrbo, booking.com, their direct site , and Airbnb. It syncs their calendars.
Yes there are companies that have you sign separate rental contracts that use api software but it’s not the same thing.
Not Signing a contract or doing a deposit does not save you from getting charged for damage or fines at the end of your contract btw. They are just conducting business like a hotel or car rental. Which people tend to forget when you hand over your card a hold is put on it. That hold gives them permission to charge the entire amount of the car or cost to fix the hotel room. My friend bf now ex bf trashed a hotel room at wedding and he was charged close $5k to fix it.
If you don’t have a contract or deposit no problem they just take you to court or you battle it out with the platform that booked with. It’s just a longer process and court fees are added if court is used. Regardless you still have to pay for the damages you did.
The contract is mostly there to keep you from squatting and requiring an eviction not really for damage issues because you will pay those regardless.
Next time you go to hotel or rent a car read that fine print or read that contract you get.
So what does API stand for?!?
Maybe I haven't had my morning coffee yet but I dont see the answer in that long explanation (still appreciate the information though!)
Application Programming Interface - Public API examples include social media bots, third-party login, e-commerce transactions, and weather apps.
Its a way for 3rd parties to integrate with the main sites in some agreed upon manner to do business or whatever.
For AirBNB, its basically a 3rd party service for a union of homeowners (or a conglomerate with homeowners buying into it) that is formed to make it super easy on the hosts while connecting them to multiple short-term rental sites. They have their own lawyers and protections and AirBNB/Vrbo/etc just let them run wild and abandon the typical protections you would associate with AirBnb.
They get to skirt the rules by bringing a ton of hosts to the various sites.
The BIGGER issue is Air BNB doesnt alert guests up front that they are renting from a host that doesnt follow their rules. They also allow these hosts to hide things like extra deposits and bs cancellations and signing all of your rights away.
That person doesn’t know what they’re talking about, I’m an API connected host and we are held to the same rules and regulations as an individual owner.
How do you determine that they're api is it on the booking page?
I posted above in this comment chain in response to the OP.
API stands for Application Programming Interface. In this case, AirBNB or VRBO computers talk to VaCasa computers on a pass through. There is very little quality control by human beings.
I stayed in a Vacasa mountain condo. Check in 4 pm, key did not work ( turns out cleaning crew put wrong key in lock box) and local manager didn’t respond until 11 pm. Gave us a $50 refund on a $5000 booking. One TP roll per bathroom, no trash bags, one towel per person. Never using them again.
Oh wow horrible. It’s been 2 days and i haven’t heard from the local manager (I honestly don’t think there is one) but luckily my key at least worked.
I worked for Vacasa. They suuuuuck.
I only rent an Airbnb hosted home through Airbnb. I have found if the home is hosted by a 3rd party, such as vacasa, evolve, etc. it’s better to rent through them.
So sorry that happened to you. Please mention all these fees in your review!
What were these fees? Just to let you know, hosts have zero power to charge actual fees. We have no access to your credit card. So you can either ignore those messages or say no. And with management companies like that, they automatically leave generic, good reviews.
We rented a beach house from this company and boy was it a dump. I will say that they had someone local who fixed a few things but we just didn't bother complaining about everything that was wrong as it would have taken up every minute of our stay.
We were hosting a lot of people there and some decided to leave to get a hotel, that's how bad it was. I've had a ton of great rentals through AirBnb but I always try to avoid anything rented out by these companies now.
I've been hosting for almost 10 years and have been a landlord most of my life. I have never met an honest property manager.
Refuse to pay the fees and make the host cancel.
They wont let you into the house and will call the police on you when you show up. It will become trespassing. Then you wont have a place to stay and will be out your money you paid already.
The police will not involve themselves in a civil case like this
They absolutely will when it becomes trespassing. You can't just sit on someones front porch raising cain while refusing to leave.
Go sit on a randos property screaming and refusing to leave. See how quick you are forced to leave.
Then what, you think you are just going to sleep on the porch? There's no way to win by refusing to pay and just showing up. It would be one of the dumbest things you could do.
You can’t get trespassed as a legal occupant, which would be demonstrated by their active Airbnb reservation, without an unlawful detainer and you’re not getting one of those quickly
Yes you can. You can't be CONVICTED of tresspassing. It's not for the cops to decide who is legal but it is for them to decide who is disturbing the peace and who the homeowner is.
Go sit on a randos property screaming you are allowed to stay and refusing to leave. See how quick you are forced to leave.
They certainly cant force you INTO the house.
Then what, you think you are just going to sleep on the porch? There's no way to win by refusing to pay and just showing up. It would be one of the dumbest things you could do.
It’s not for the cops to decide is precisely why they don’t do anything.
Standing on a random property for which you have no legitimate reason to be on is literally trespassing but having an active Airbnb reservation for the property, which is the real-life situation we’re discussing here not your hypothetical, is not trespassing.
Showing up and demonstrating to Airbnb that you have been denied access is how you would get refunded in this extreme situation where the host is being that underhanded.
Look guy, I dont know what kind of fantasy API world you live in...
If neighbors complain. If the host complains that these people wont leave my property. They will show up.. they cant make the host open their home to someone.
So now you are shit out of luck, sitting on a porch with no way to get inside.
Air BNB will absolutely NOT give you money back if you are denied access. Especially if they said the fees are legit against your agreement.
Now you have nowhere to stay... and are out of cash.
Your API rentals are scams.
I’m downvoting you because you are spreading misinformation. An API is simply a software tool that allows two different computer programs that are written in different languages to communicate with each other, that’s all.
Hard to find a more disingenuous argument than you attempting to make it about the "API" and not the backdoor rules the API allows you to do - trapping customers into payments, extortion - like refusing to return deposits until after the deadline for rating a stay or refusing to allow entrance until extra deposits are paid. Deposits, that Air BNB warns you on their own site not to pay.
Post your rules here and your listing... prove it wrong.
The fees must have been in the house rules if Airbnb is upholding it. Vacasa is definitely market dependent, in some areas they do have a local team and in others there is no one.
Airbnb didn’t say the fees were valid just that the only option to oppose them was to cancel a non refundable stay, pay for a new stay stop where else, and then file a formal complaint about the host with Airbnb. I kept the reservation because it was too late for me to find a comprable new one but obviously am still filing a complaint about the host with Airbnb.
Is it an optional fee, like a pet fee or a pool heating fee?
Say no. They can’t do anything because they are operating under Airbnb TOS.