I am a single father (38) of one daughter (10) and is doing more than comfortably financially. I am finding the age-appropriate dating pool in my area to be rather slim. I am usually dating women in from their early thirties to early forties who are for the most part divorced with children. That in itself is not the problem, but what is that most of them were SAHMs whose husbands divorced them after they had a couple of children and hitting their mid-thirties. When I do date them, it seems that after the third or fourth date they tell me how much they are struggling with bills, how their exes are financially abusing them by making them beg for their child support payments, how they are in dead end jobs, and how much they had to downsize their lifestyle. Then they see how well I am doing; how big my house is and the car I am driving, and they know that I could support them and their children easily without them needing to go to work.
This came to a head after Thanksgiving when I hosted a large gathering (30+) at my home with me supplying and cooking the main dishes with the help of my Third Cousin Amy who is staying at my Additional Dwelling Unit. I was told by a couple of neighbors and friends that Amy was 'monopolizing" me and not letting me meet some single women they brought to introduce me to. My sisters have also gotten after me about it, and they got mad at me for telling them that I don't want date a woman who highest ambition is to be a SAHM. They both called me an AH for not giving them a chance.
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NTA. The real AH’s are people trying to make introductions without talking to you about your interest first. Also, as a host, you had other priorities, so it’s not surprising that you and Amy were busy.
There’s no info to suggest these ladies were digging for gold, but that’s not relevant. You were busy.
As for people who were offended that you don’t want to marry someone you perceive as a gold-digger, tough nuggies. If they want to support single-women and their family, your sisters will have no problem finding someone they can help. My guess is that they don’t want to.
Don’t be sorry that you want to date someone who’s an equal rather than a charity case. And don’t yield when they have problems with their ex. That’s a red flag.
Right, this is the answer.
Tell your sisters and everything that the right person for you is independently successful, has her shit together, and is NOT looking to be a SAHM. Tell them that when they find that person you very much want to meet her.
I agree with you. Except, I think this post conflates being a stay at home mother with these women who are searching for a sugar daddy. No woman with self-respect tells her man on the third or fourth date how badly she's doing economically. These women aren't problematic because they raise their own children. They are problematic because they expect another man to raise their own children.
Conflates*
Thank you. I'm tired of correcting my AutoCorrect. It's nice to have someone else do it for me.
Sometimes I think autocorrect is more like an autoincorrect. Has it gotten worse over time?
I believe it has. One of my main problems is that it's vocabulary is that of an eight-year-old. It unerringly changes words like conflict. I can't even get it to say conflate. Conflict. Conflate. The last one change to conflict and then back to what I said. And then it went back and changed one before then. On other platforms, the random capitalization and punctuation leaves me wondering why they even bother to ask me if I'm speaking English in the first place. Well this is headed into rant territory. No one has time to worry about something this inconsequential. Have a fabulous evening.
I agree! Maddening!!
Its my best friend and my worst enema.
Yes
Or autojumptothewronganswer.
Yes! We call it “spellchuck”. Funny- my phone knows that word but doesn’t know many many common words
And nobody should be cussing out their ex at the beginning of dating. Even if somebody's ex is really really shitty, I wouldn't expect them to share about that on the third or fourth date. I take it as a red flag if somebody complains a lot about their ex early on, because on dates you should be focusing on each other.
You can be thinking "Oh, this person asks me so many more questions about myself and listens so much more than my ex, this is so great" and use the things you hated about your ex as must-avoids for new partners, but you shouldn't say it out loud while you're still getting to know each other.
Exactly. What is the term for all that now? Over sharing? The early stages of dating are really no different than being in a job interview. Know how to answer the question, what didn't you like about your last job? I'm a photographer. When I did weddings and portraits, I would always ask my clients if they've had their photos done by a professional and what they thought. If they trashed the photographer, I declined their business. Not worth it.
If she’s on a third or fourth date, he’s not ‘her man” anyway.
I've met and dated many single mothers and none of them talk about their finances. They do talk about the challenges of their last marriage.
Going through the dating scene in your late 40s, you realize what absolute pieces of shits men are. Women are driven to be the supportive one because it is expected and they go through trying to do that only to get absolutely screwed.
Trad wife - cool. But what protections do the trad wife has against a fornicating asshole who leaves them for a younger model trad wife? It's why I hate these stupid movements. When women are financially independent it works well for everyone except for these pieces of shit men.
The whole tradwife thing comes off as stay at home moms being fetishized for money on the socials. It's hard work. One of the things that stops me cold is these women who aren't having children but expect to stay home and have their man take care of them like they are pets. Those are some lazy women. Couples have to get together on this before they get married. When I was looking for a husband I was looking for someone who was as determined as I to make sacrifices necessary to raise our own children. That was our choice, and they worked great. I don't like predatory women, and I don't like men of low character either. I think people need to know more about getting married than what they see in the movies or hear in music. There's too often a disconnect between reality and expectations. Well that's the end of my mini rant. I think we agree on a lot.
Its funny that in too many womens minds, the only people that can't have preferences are men.
Yea, sure could but yea, no, thank you.
No need for a bangmaid with dependent kids to pay for from another bloke.
NTA we all get to make choices in our lives. Some women choose to be SAHM (unless you have set up some excellent financial protections ahead of time it’s a very poor choice in my opinion, it’s just downright dangerous for women to be so dependent on men). You get to choose not to date SAHM.
The right woman is out there for you. There are plenty of women invested in their careers and who wish to be financially independent.
Beyond the "dangerous for a woman to depend so much on a man", as a man I also see it as "dangerous for a household to depend so much on one person", especially with the current economical situation, unless you have a lot of money saved it's risky to have half of the potential earner in the house willingly not working
I'm the sole breadwinner in a single-income marriage. My husband and I came to this conclusion after much trial and error. We are both physically disabled but disability payments wouldn't be enough for us to live on, so we have to work. I found a job I'm passionate about so I withstand the physically demanding job while he withstands keeping the house from coming down. If it weren't for him I wouldn't feed myself, and if it weren't for me he would be stuck in retail forever. We ONLY do this because we physically can't both work. We've tried it and it runs us into the ground.
We are very poor. All of our food either comes from my work or the food pantry down the street. But we are happy, and sane, and not dead because we rely on each other. All that to say, a single income family is nearly impossible, and that "possibility" comes with a lot of sacrifices that I don't think many people my age would make willingly.
Your honesty hits hard in the best way. You two built a life on grit and teamwork, not fantasy, and that’s why it works. Most people have no idea what real sacrifice looks like.
Thank you. We're about to have our first wedding anniversary so we're still new to life in the grand scheme of things, but we both basically saved each other. We liberated each other from our abusive and dysfunctional families who would have rather seen us dead than independent. I've never felt so wordlessly understood by another person, and never more respected. You gotta do what you gotta do in this world, and deal every card from the hand you're played. I consider myself infinitely lucky.
Same here only by the grace of God do we have the life that we do.
Yes. This isn’t the 1950’s where you worked at a place until you retired.
I have to lay off more people this week for no reason. We are fine financially, the owner just wants more money.
Edit: spelling
As someone who was laid off earlier this year: does he have the stones to attend the layoff meetings? It feels like a slap in the face that upper management can make the decisions to let us go without having to look us in the face as they take away our livelihood. I was fortunate in that my partner makes way more than I did and we had enough savings to get us by; I can’t imagine the panic of the people who are subsisting paycheck to paycheck.
That held true through most of the 1970s. This Project 2025 bullshit started with Nixon, but Reagan is the one who really started killing social programs and made Greed the new normal. He and the Republican Party really started screwing vets at that time. During the Reagan administration they tried to make our retirement 30 years in the military as a result thousands of senior NCOs with as little as two years left to retirement, left military service many of them combat veterans. We were told, “Do not bother the VA , they have nothing for you.” In our exit briefing (last attempt to reenlistment you).
Most people don't know this goes back so many years in the Republican Party.
If he doesn't make more money how is he going to be able to afford more exotic cars and lavish vacations?
And also anybody can have an accident or an illness at any time that can take you out of the workforce real fast.
Single dude sitting here w a leg injury that years ago would have been complete financial ruin. I changed careers 8 years ago due to the knowledge my body will one day give up.
So fucking lucky.
Same but heart issue! Got so damn lucky. I’d be a disabled carpenter but can do my desk job like a demon still.
Long term disability, get it, it's cheap.
I wish more people understood this. My husband was the primary supporter of the household, and had a catastrophic stroke. He’s permanently paralyzed on one side of his body now.
If I hadn’t gone to college and maintained a work history we would be super screwed right now.
I know a middle aged woman who just got out of a Stay At Home Girlfriend situation. She is royally screwed right now, nothing is payed for outright and she has no job. So she's living with a friend until... she can move in with her new man and be a stay at home girlfriend again, but this time in another state! Where she has no friends or family! And where it's even harder to find jobs! And where if anything were to happen to the new guy, she'd be in an even worse position than she is now!
But anything not to work, I guess.
It's not unreasonable to want to be with a partner who shares your financial goals. I can see how you would want a partner not a dependent.
This - it takes two for most ppl these days
Only if one is working 2 jobs sad to say.
I'm the primary income, pay all of our household bills, and also subsidize another household about $500/month. It's super stressful.
That’s why I (45M, thankfully happily married) would never want to be the sole wage earner. I get stressed enough at work, having the fact that I’m the only one bringing in money on top of that? Hard pass.
So glad I'm not either. I was making a great wage 20k over what my wife was making until I got laid off in 2023. Took me 26mo just to get a job making $17 an hour. Job market is fucking rough.
I work for a municipal govt and survived one round of layoffs earlier this year, and continue to hope that being “essential to the continuity of government” with my team will help keep me employed there.
Almost assuredly could find a private sector job that pays more, but they’ll have to blow my ass out of there with C4 to get me to leave in THIS market.
And this is why single people are screwed. The backup plan is you. The safety net is you. There is no second potential income waiting to help out.
Ugh seriously. I see being a SAHM as a valid life choice in theory but it is heartbreaking how many women get in that situation and then get dumped, with no money and no easy route back into the job force. Not that OP needs to take on the job of supporting them...I just get sick reading stories like that because there is such a fine line separating them from serious hardship that they don't realize until it's too late. Prenups, yall, prenups.
My wife and I talked about it with our first born and how much daycare cost at the time. My income wasn't the best at the time and I was driving 45mins to work each way. We figured out my paychecks at the time were only clearing like $200-300 a month more than what daycare cost us, so figuring gas and some maintenance, it was close enough for us to discuss it.
Being a SAHD was really tempting, but once the kids were in school there was going to be no real value gained by me staying home and not getting a better grasp on my career path and I'm very much glad I did not make that choice. Only so much laundry and grocery getting I could do, and I still do that same amount done working.
No one seems to ever calculate the cost of lost raises and retirement when they make the SAHP calculation. It’s very short-term thinking.
100%. I had just shifted careers and that's why my income was why my income was shitty, but my career is one where experience generally matters more than education. So if I took 2-4 years off I'd have screwed myself and probably set us back in the long run. We both feel that we made the right choice.
It’s fucked up that having a kid can destroy your life.
My mom did the same. She was very much a classic second wife much younger to a very successful older man. Her salary was a rounding error to the household at the time and was basically absorbed by the cost of the nanny and our activities. My dad completely supported her and found the second nanny when the first one REALLY didn’t work out quickly and she was about to stay home.
Fast forward a few years she absolutely slayed at work eventually matching that salary he had when we were born. Then my dad died unexpectedly when we were barely teenagers. We would have been fine financially but would have had to move and get student loans. In the end she provided the lifestyle for us when he died. You never know…
I use to be in this women's finance group on FB and you'd get these posts about "I never thought it would happen to me" husband divorcing them and they have no career or money. In comments people saying make sure he is maxing out your spousal IRA, make sure you have your own money in an account, etc. And yet many women in the comments saying "I don't have that but my husband would never do this to me." Then next month another post "I never thought this would happen to me." At some point it is hard to empathize.
Prenups so important to protect pre marital assets at the same time its so important to have prenups re negotiated for children or how understandable it is that the australian system completely disregards them when children are involved.
The idea of having children when u dont own a house, dont have 2 stable incomes where each income could support the household if something were to happen and where a woman hasnt made sure she has the employment experience she can take quite a few years off to raise children then transition back to a decent job in her career and be able to safely raise her kids if something was to happen.
You've just explained, in a few sentences, why being a SAHM is a risky life choice. There isn't just divorce that can change things, by the way, people become sick and unable to work, or even die.
Yeah I should have also added, get life insurance if you have kids!
And disability insurance for the spouse who works outside the home.
You may want to look into professional get-togethers since I'm sure you will meet women who have a career and my guess is those would be women who are independent and don't want to be financially dependent on a guy.
My wife is a SAHM.
We got married young, and we're very religious/fundamentalist at the time.
Now, 17 years later, I've become a feminist, and I've seen what happens in families in the community I grew up in, where women are expected to be dependent, to put up with abuse or cheating, and there is no escape because they have no financial capabilities. At the same time, some husbands kick those wives to the curb when the kids get older, when child support is no longer a concern.
I look at my wife, and I imagine that happening to her, and it fills me with horror. I know it won't because I won't do that, but she could have easily married someone who would.
I was a bit apprehensive at the first line of your comment, I immediately assumed you would be defensive. I was wrong and thankyou for perfectly explaining why the SAHM role can be so fraught with danger for the woman.
Of course there are excellent marriages out there, like yours, where it does work well for everyone. But there are also, tragically, very many instances of terrible financial hardship, control and abuse.
I'm a SAHM (god i hate that label) and my partner makes an extremely good living. It wasn't always the case, prior to our child, I made more money than him, on less qualifications.
We made the joint decision that I would stay home with the baby rather than return to work, as we worked out we would be very close to spending more than I could earn returning to work.
His career grew exponentially over the years, requiring a lot of international travel, conferences, etc. He was only able to achieve all of that AND have the family we have because I was doing all the shit home jobs in the background. His career is my career. His money is my money.
I do run my own small business from home now and in the next fin year hope to finally break 6 figures on it, but i'm 15 years out of the work force with barely any super. We are setup so if something happens to him we'd be fine (or i'd be fine) but it's still terrifying. I think about it all the time. The cost of living only keeps going up, and if i had to start all over again, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
I feel for other women who probably started out exactly like I did who end up in a broken relationship / divorced. It must feel impossible.
I’m also stay at home mom - and these comments- it’s wild that people think this isn’t work . It is not income generating but it is definitely not not working - I keep side jobs and all work away from home feels like vacation now
A stay at home mom is fine, a trad wife is something very different, it's a sahm, but with being hyper religious and/or hyper conservative added to the mix. Nooooo thank you.
I’d also add a woman who not only wants to be a SAHM but also has kids already she would be expecting you to help fund as well. You have your own child and she is your only priority.
I agree. It is very dangerous for a woman to depend on a man for basically everything. And honestly, I really doubt that most "normal" men would not want to get serious with someone who strives to be a sahm. That just feels icky, and how could you ever really trust that their feelings for you are genuine, or just faked to gain financial security.
Also, her child is 10. 10 yr olds are pretty independent.There is no need for a sahm. This woman is in a desperate financial situation and she hasn't tried to do ANYTHING about it except hunt men? NTA.
Read it incorrectly, Op child is 10 he’s had a couple dates with women with kids who were mostly SAHM or have mentioned they want to be sahm . Op doesn’t find that appealing .
Also it is the OPs family members, not the women he is dating, who are making a big deal about this. The women he is dating are simply complaining about their situation. That could be annoying but they arent calling him an asshole or saying they want to be trad wives.
The mere incidental mention of the phrase "pre-nup" will get rid of these women fast and without the unpleasant task of having to formally break off any budding relationship.
Agreed. NTA. You are fundamentally not compatible with these women as you have different lifestyle choices and goals. The right woman is out there. You just have to find her.
This is coming from 38 year old divorced woman who is educated and has a career. I choose a companion not a financial support system. Women like that do exist!
Being a STAHM isn't always a choice. Someone has to watch the children. If you can't afford daycare and don't have help, then guess what, it falls on you.
If you can't afford the life you've chosen, you've chosen the wrong life. The world is filled with couples that can't afford children, yet most of them never bother to so much as look at their reality before they start popping out kids.
What if a pandemic comes around and destroys your plans?
Agree 100%. It’s so important to be clear in your own mind what qualities you want in a future spouse, and to communicate those clearly with your partner beforehand.
It is not women choosing most often Most women are forced into it by their husbands, societal expectation and biological or financial limitations. It is not a fair assessment. Not fair at all. If your wife if you are man got pregnant and you could not afford childcare your first thought would be for the wife to stay at home.
And they would be equally as valid for not wanting to date a single father, even if he doesn’t want a bang maid to raise his children for him.
For sure. As I said, we all get to make choices.
They're being ridiculous. There's nothing wrong with wanting to date someone who's career-driven. They're trying to hook you up with people you aren't compatible with.
Aside, it's very funny you capitalized Third Cousin Amy and Additional Dwelling Unit.
I'm thinking Pratchett Fan, but I may be reaching 😂
Ah. I was wondering if that was a reference to something cuz that's not how real people talk. If not a reference, I was assuming AI
Ha yes, Pratchett had this thing where he would capitalise things that weren't usually, kinda for effect. I can't think a quote up under pressure lol, so this is mine;
'When James looked up, he could see that the Big Chicken was watching him through the window.'
Like that's not just a large chicken. That is THE large chicken lol, and it kinda gives you a sense that there is History between James and the Big Chicken? That chicken is MENACING lol.
So I immediately know there is a whoooole back story to the Cousin and the living arrangement, which is probably a point of contention in the family already.
I do the same thing and people call me out of it sometimes. Nono, that's not a couch, that's The Couch. That's its name, yo. A proper noun.
Was gonna make a Third Cousin/Dwelling Unit joke too. And I mean who distinguishes second from third cousins? Lolz
Well… I mean, I’ve heard of people who think a 3rd cousin is okay to date but a 2nd cousin isn’t… just ask my ex brother in law…
I mean, in 18 states (and DC!) one can marry one’s FIRST cousin… ew.
Sounds like AI
I would say NTA. I’m a woman (44), not single, but I do live alone with my kids. I work 4 days a week, I make a decent living and I am financially independent. I would not date a man that is not also financially independent. Ofcourse I can understand that sometimes things happen that can have an effect on your finances, and that’s ok. As long as you are trying to improve your situation. If someone is not doing that and is just looking for someone who can help pay their bills, than that is not for me.
(don’t mind my grammar and spelling please, not a native English speaker)
Heck. You got the right effect/affect - as far as I'm concerned, you absolutely pass for a native speaker at this point! Your English is 🔥
Ah, thank you 😊
NTA. At least those women are letting you know their red flags early by telling you all about their financial struggles and expectations 🤷
Dont really see that as a red flag, its their reality and they are being honest about it. Nothing wrong there. Also perfectly fine if OP doesnt want to date someone like that.
It’s a red flag for someone who values financial compatibility. Some red flags are highly individualized, not universal.
Third Cousin Amy sounds hot.
Honestly not sure why this comment surprised me so much. I think I was subconsciously looking for it lol.
I was looking for some third cousin Amy talk. “My third cousin Amy” rubbed me as strange.
NTA you want a partner not a dependent who looks at you like a lifestyle supplement. Hard pass!
Def AI.
She's staying in my Additional Dwelling Unit. Real people don't say that. Or capitalize it.
And what woman would TELL the man "oh I see you're doing well, you could definitely be my meal ticket". 🙄
Also weirdly specific that he had to say "my Third Cousin Amy" with capital letters
I have no clue who my third cousins are….
Seriously.
ADU, ffs.....
A big thanksgiving of 30+..... wtf this reads like a "im a prince" story
Even the comments are AI!
…oh man, and here I was thinking that was a better term than “mother in law unit” (assumed that’s what he was referring to but I never liked that name)
it is one and the same but most people call it an In-Law apartment (or suite). In my family we have a set of sisters with one in an in-law so they call it a sister suite.
The fact that so many people think this is real
Gotta keep up engagement to keep stock holders happy.
NTA, you can prefer any type of woman you want. Nobody bats an eye when a woman says she wants an "ambitious" man, which is code for "well off".
Also, were you being cock blocked by your cousin??
NTA.
These women wouldn't be fawning over you if you were poor or homeless, why should you?
You're allowed to like what you like.
Exactly, its just entitlement for a lifestyle they cant make for themselves and are mad about it. They're just takers who think it's their right to be so.
NTA of course. You want a partner that pulls her weight and...sorry, SAHMs, but a 10 year old doesn't need you home all day or even half a day. It's perfectly reasonable to consider trad wives undateable. Heck, I bet half those trad wives are tiktok trad wives that'd rather call a professional cleaner than clean the house themselves. 😅
The trad wives on Tik Tok were dealt a lethal blow to their budding influencer niche when Lilly Gaddis dropped her n-bomb, was exposed as actually having a job when she was fired from said job for dropping the n-bomb, and was exposed as being divorced after she was fired from her job for dropping the n-bomb. Then, in hoping to spin her being an insufferable waste of carbon into being a not-really-a-trad-racist-scumfuck, she goes on the interview circuit and is exposed for being a previously somewhat tolerant, only semi-Karen and is literally shunned by the other ass backward bumbledicks that make up her target audience.
If there was ever an argument against SAHM's, that pos is it. And she wasn't even a SAHM.
I agree and OP clearly agrees. That said.... There are definitely some advantages to having a SAHP for a ten year old, if finances aren't an issue (rare but OP indicates he's in this situation).
Coming home to a clean house and meals... I would love a stay at home house husband if they were willing to do things like book appointments, etc, even without children.
If you have the money (which it sounds like OP has), you can just hire a housekeeper who can also do those things. A PA (personal assistant) can also make your appointments, and do the other administrative stuff you hate doing or don't want to spend the time doing. All services you can outsource. Don't need a spouse for any of that.
Maybe I'm just an oddball but I never saw the purpose in having a stay at home spouse if the main reason for that was to do chores and tasks that I could otherwise outsource and just pay someone to do. Spouses/life partners should add more to the relationship than just something I can hire someone to do...(assuming you are financially comfortable, which OP says he is)
You’re allowed to date whoever you want
Third Cousin Amy is a great band name
Sophomore album: Thanksgiving Cousin Walk
Followed by Rolling in the Additional Dwelling Unit
Once Removed: the greatest hits cover album
Ew. Absolutely NTA. You have every right to date a smart, ambitious person who doesn't want or need a man to "take care of" them. This is not to say that SAHMs are not smart or ambitious but if SAHM is their only goal in life and that doesn't align with your goals, then you are well within your right not to date them or at least not more than once.
Can I recommend maybe signing up for an adult co-ed sport league or joining a networking group related to work? The dating pool might be a bit deeper if you just swim out a little.
I think this is a fake post.
No, totally true. I'm his Seventh Step-Aunt Matilda and stay in his Tree Dwelling
NTA
It is different if they stay at home until the kids are all at school, but to me, once your time frees up during school hours you should be contributing more to a household. The only exception to this would be if you have special needs kids with substantial numbers of appointments.
But I'm also driven enough that I hated having so much time for maternity leave (mostly boredom as not enough money to do what I wanted, and too much time to fill) even though the norm with most of my friends was to have a year off, I had 6 months off for our first and 8 for our second and for both wanted to go back early.
This section is weird. Who capitalizes like this? Who says "additional dwelling unit"? No human, that's who.
And what does it have to do with the story at all. Is Amy protecting him from the “evil sahms” or is she trying to monopolize his apparent wealth???
its a very obscure term that may be a sign that its written by AI.
ADU? It’s actually used a lot in California. They recently passed a law allowing ADUs to combat our housing shortage.
Which is why I learned just today what “ADU” stands for, even though I’ve heard the acronym for years.. 😂
NTA. You can date whomever you're interested in and are in no way obligated to compromise on what you'd like in a partner. To add perspective though, I was at one point in a similar position to those women. I'm sure I complained about finances as well during that time. That was not ever intended as a hint or indicate I thought I was in any way entitled to their hard earned money. It was conversation about something in my life I was dealing with. I know there are women out there who are gold diggers, and you have every right to protect yourself. I just wanted to put forth another perspective in that not every woman is out to snag a rich husband for a payday
NTA. It is simple incompatibility: You have different life goals. Their goal is to be a homemaker/mother, no shade. Your goal is to find a more like-minded partner, who isn't dependent on you financially, has career ambitions, and splits the work-life balance with you. Also, nothing wrong with that. You want different things.
"They both called me the AH for not giving them a chance."
"There is no point in my giving them a chance because we will not work out. I am not interested in fully financially supporting anyone other than my children. If they are looking for that, I am not that guy, so best we both move on to someone we are more compatible with."
NTA. I have always wanted to be a SAHM, thought it was a bit of a pipe dream, but always thought in an ideal world that would be my role. I met my boyfriend a few years ago and he has always wanted to find a woman to BE a SAHM. It is a risk and we’ve talked extensively about how that’ll work so that we’re both protected and we’re working with lawyers to give us both some security.
I never ever ever thought that I would actually get to be a SAHM so I was always open to a relationship where that wasn’t a possibility. My bf on the other hand was never open to being with a woman who wouldn’t eventually want to stay home, even just for a few years when the kids are young.
My sisters would never in a million years want that lifestyle, as I would never want to be hugely successful in a career.
I think totally different strokes for different folks, if you’re not looking for a SAHM, everyone needs to stop wasting your time and respect that that is NOT what you’re interested in.
(Only adding this because of the “highest ambition” comment) If you’re being ignorant towards these women and looking down on them for wanting to be SAHM’s, then that’s AH behaviour, but not being interested in sharing that lifestyle does not inherently make you the AH.
I'm really stoned, but where tf does Amy come in?
NTA but...
Additional Dwelling Unit?
Who talks like that?
Certainly not someone that has one, because they should know that they are called Accessory Dwelling Units.
NTA. You feel the way you feel and you’re being honest about it. You might phrase it better, but I know better than most how it can chip away. I made one reassuring comment to my wife 22 years ago when she got laid off. I haven’t been able to get her back to work since. We’re okay…but we’d be a hell of a lot better off. And it pisses me off every day.
Uh, I'm sorry, but you didn't divorce her, why?
NTA An additional layer here is that you have a daughter, and you need to think about the message you are sending her. She will most likely be better off if she gets a good education and is raised to be independent and self sufficient so that she doesn’t have to be economically dependent on someone else.
Was the mother of your child ever a stay at home mom? Did you ever benefit from having a partner that did the majority, or all, of the child care? I notice you take care not to mention her at all. We don't know if you were ever married. If your wife died. If you have been the sole custodial parent for your daughter's entire life. If you even have custody of your daughter.
While every adult knows women like the ones you describe, I find it is often the men who benefitted the most from women who took on caregiver roles that ridicule and demean the role when it is not actively benefitting them.
NTA. Tell your neighbors and sister that you'll happily meet their friends that can support themselves. You're not looking for another person to support, you're looking for a partner.
It's an old problem:
However little known the feelings or views of such a man may be on his first entering a neighbourhood, this truth is so well fixed in the minds of the surrounding families that he is considered as the rightful property of some one or other of their daughters.
(Pride & Prejudice, 1813)
One of the most famous opening lines in literature for a reason.
You probably don’t want to deal with anyone that has any more baggage than you. It’s a preference, you’re not here to find a chick to save. I go through the same thing with girls I meet. I personally want them to be able to offer me the same things I could offer them. It’s just meeting in the middle. But 9/10 they have way more going on, and way worse situations.
I’ve dated younger and I personally like that but then they get fed up cause I spend a lot of time with my kids and I’ll drop them in a heartbeat for my kids.
Definitely don’t date women who want to be sahm. It didn’t work out the first time
As a SAHM you are…NTA.
Listen, here is the reality. You don’t want to be a sugar daddy. There is NOTHING wrong with that. Being a family with a SAHP has many advantages but it also has many disadvantages. It’s not your job to support “her” (whoever that may end up being) child/ren and her. You’re wanting someone to build a life with. Not someone to take care of and support.
Having a stay at home parent should always be a two yes one no situation. I will be the first to admit that a half way decent stay at home parent can be a huge asset to the family. My husband rarely has to take off work when a kid is sick. He worked from home today simply because one kiddo is super sick and the other kiddo had an MD appt 2-3 hours away one direction. It’s endocrinology so I couldn’t just reschedule. Our end schedules our appts 2 ahead at all times bc she’s always so booked and it’s important. Outside of a fluke like this he only takes off when I’m too sick to care for the kids.
My husband rarely has to cook meals or do the majority of the cleaning. He gets to come home (typically) and rest along with spend time with the kids unless I need help.
BUT…they are his kids. They are with us 24/7. If he were to pass and I got remarried I would never expect my new husband to be financially responsible for them. In fact it would scare me to be completely financially dependent on him because if things didn’t work out and I was still a SAHM…he could completely crush/devastate us by pulling financial help out from under us. I would never be ok putting my kids in that situation.
Additional Dwelling Unit? JFC can you learn to write a decent prompt so it's at least somewhat believable??
Ffs did these women not learn their lesson the first time? Don't depend on a man to feed you otherwise he can starve you!!!!
Third Cousin?
You’ll get some looks, but legally you’re in the clear here.
gray area..
No wrong at all. Your principal doesn’t compatible with this SAHM lifestyle. These women are looking for meal tickets, not a life partner.
Also, these neighbours are sick. Never invite them again.
Honestly, I wouldn't date a republican, MAGA, or anyone who follows the manosphere. If I was single, that's my standard. You have yours. NTA
NTA
Realistically, unless severe disabilities are involved, kids 10 and over don’t need a SAH parent. Additionally, I’d think that women with crappy ex-partners would be determined not to put themselves back in that position of having to rely on a partner for money.
Yes, ageism in the workforce is a thing, but so is women going back to work once their kids are in school
NTA. Fair game.
That's what I hate about SAHM, as a woman. With all my respect, there will always be ten time more risks to be SAHM than to be working. Even if your spouse doesn't leave they can die or be fired. That's a risk they took and need to accept. I don't wish you the worst when I say it : I don't see any risk as big as this one when working.
(Of course, not working for a practical reason like lack of childcare or disabled / sick child is 100% different.)
They can't force you to be a suggar daddy.
Wait, is Amy trying to date you, or just keep the women away? I'm so confused about that part. Isn't it you who doesn't want to date SAHM? Just wondering what the Amy part has to do with it.
You are allowed to choose what’s best for you.
Have sex with your third cousin to show dominance and prove a point.
JK. Seriously though, youre not the asshole. Good job for noticing all this. Your younger self would have already bought a ring.
NTA. PS: Do you live in 1965?
NTA. You can date or not date anyone you choose.
Do you have the cojenes to date a 10 year older financially successful woman,? Truly bro, you are doing ok, that’s lovely. . All of the rest of your post seems like static to me. I’m truly trying to flip your preconceived notions. You seem pretty rigid.
NTA the only girl in ur life that ur responsible for is 10 years old and related to you. i’m 28F and career driven and i want the same in my partner. you want someone with similar values to you, and that’s perfectly reasonable. ppl who complain about your boundaries are usually ones that benefitted from you not having any.
I am 38F, divorced mom. I am having the opposite problem as I was the breadwinner in my marriage and I'm finding most men want me to contribute financially AND provide SAHM duties. Dating these days just sucks.
NTA. I am a mid-40s woman and happily married. However, in my 20's I had a boyfriend that didn't want to go to college, would hop around at low end jobs, and would joke around about when we got married and had kids that he'd be the SAHD. I told him in no uncertain terms that I did not want that lifestyle. I also in no way made a salary that would make that realistic anyway. There were a lot of other incompatibilities that came up over the course of the relationship and I ended up breaking things off with him.
You are not required to give anyone a chance. A romantic partner should be someone that improves your life, not takes from it. If 3 to 4 dates in they are talking about you supporting them, that's crazy. I'd run to.
Also, if you did want a trad wife, it would be a major red flag for the exact same reasons these women are in the situations they are in now. Men who want trad wives almost always want it so they can control in the relationship and their partner. My friend who has been going through the divorce process for over 2 years now is finding that out right now. She's my age, but now with a 15 year gap in work and education, and yes that is going to suck for her.
This sounds like two separate issues. Your 3rd cousin could very well be cock blocking you. Good luck with th se age appropriate women because your probably aren't going to find a woman who isn't attrwctes to your money since that's how the real world works. You might find a unicorn girl boss with just one kid and h r own money but that will be hard. I say one kid because if she has no kids, Unless she is barren but wants kids I don't see her being the good fit.
And nothing you have mentioned is a trad wife. I'd say most SAHMs are not trad wifes which is often why they are divorced. I'd avoid any woman who mentions financial abuse. It might be true but most examples I've seen are BS and it's the kind of person who labels everything abuse if they don't get their way.
I appreciate your desire to date age appropriate, but that is something you might need to abandon. You'd probably do better to find a late 20s career girl who wants to work and doesn't have kids. But dating is a numbers game and you have time and money to look for a unicorn in your age bracket too.
NTA....but I would probably keep some of these things to yourself about your feelings of SAHM as it can sound like a put down. Totally reasonable to want to date someone who is also financially secure like you are and have similar visions for their career and life goals. And are your sisters trying to fix you up with women? Is that why you are even discussing it with them? I think don't talk with them about it. And maybe not talk about dataing in general with them until you meet someone special enough to introduce to family.
How are you meeting people? Maybe you need to shake things up a bit into where you meet people.
As for the Amy thing, do you actually spend time with her often, like is she in your main house every day or something? It may not be intentional but she could be hindering your ability to get out there and meet people.
First off you seem to be using the terms "trad wife" and "SAHM" interchangeably, but they're very different.
A Stay At Home Mom is just a mother who wants to raise the kids rather than work. Perfectly valid choice, may not be for you, no shame in saying "that's just not what I'm looking for in a partner."
A Trad Wife is some dumbass cultist who bought into batshit insane rightwing propaganda and you need to run away from anyone who self identifies as such as fast as you can, because I guarantee you that this isn't the only topic where they're weird as hell.
Women who have been divorced, who are stressed about money and have chosen not to learn from this, and go stand on their own two feet independently should be avoided like the plague
The fact they see getting a husband as being their ticket to financial security (even after being divorced), screams a mixture of laziness / stupidity / ignorance.
I say this as a woman with three children of varying ages from 2 - 15, who is employed full time, same as my husband.
We are in it together, we are a partnership, and we both have always understood that if we want to get ahead, we both need to be employed.
Also - I would be really irritated at so called friends and neighbours who try to set you up with women of this ilk
Firstly, why do you need to settle for divorced unemployed women with questionable financial stability? Do they hold you in such low regard that this is the best you can do?
Secondly, how do you know they value you for you, and not just for what you can give them? You have a daughter and need to ensure anyone you bring into your lives adds value, and has the right motives, otherwise you risk another failed relationship
I'd rather be alone than settle.
As a mom who works (I’m a physician can independently support myself and child) with a husband (also works), I just want to say there’s a lot of people here who are clearly not parents. I live in a big city and childcare for my kid (in a daycare not nanny) is 40k+ a year. So let’s not pretend SAHM moms aren’t working and contributing to the family. You don’t have to date one but let’s not all pile on here on SAHMs. Thanks!
Who says additional dwelling unit.
Just another reason it doesn’t pay for women to be mothers. Men expect them to cook clean have and raise children and make a good income. Hard pass
Are you screwing your cousin?
There is a huge difference between what people are referring to as a Trad wife and a SAHM. When my husband and I were having our first child we knew it would make financial sense for me to stay at home with him. Plus it’s what we both wanted as a family. Over the years we had two more kids and I had several part time jobs when we needed extra funds. When our youngest was in school full time I began my career and was quite successful until my retirement. So just because I was a stay at mom and didn’t put my kids in day care does not mean I was not motivated, intelligent, or ambitious. It was that my priorities at the time were raising healthy, well rounded humans and financially this is what worked for us. So a woman expressing frustration over an ex’s inability to provide financial support is quite valid and don’t rule out that her suddenly going from their game plan of her staying home to raise the kids while he works to he’s outta there and she’s on her own to deal with it all is no picnic. It doesn’t always mean she’s a gold digger. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t want more for herself. It may mean that right now she’s trying to hold together what is left of her family and maintain some kind of normalcy at home. That said you are right to watch for red flags to protect yourself and your daughter. You are right to want to find someone who has the same ambitions and sees a future along the same lines that you do. No one should feel going into a relationship that they are being used for their ability to pay the bills, produce the children, do the housework or some other singular focus. I hope you find your person. Someone who helps you feel your true worth makes you happy. Best of luck.
NTA, would they settle for someone who didn’t meet their criteria? Why should you, just because you’re single and they’re single?
There is NOTHING wrong with wanting your daughter to see an independent woman with a career in her life. Even as a step parent, your partner is going to be setting an example.
Genuine question. Do you expect the woman you choose to help you raise your daughter?
I don't think it's necessarily that you don't want to date a SAHM. You don't want to date a gold digger. Totally understandable.
Justice for Amy
Some women are trad-wives without air quotes because they truly want to stay at home and be amazing mothers and make and attend to great homes with their husband and kids in a throwback conservative way with traditional gender roles, and that’s fine.
Other women want to be “trad-wives” because they like the aesthetic and kinky bits, and this is also fine if you’re into that.
And yet other women want it because they really just don’t want to work and they want to live the fancy life whilst being a trophy at home who shops and fucks around online and so on while you’re out earning the bacon, which is basically a modern day gold digger.
Choose wisely.
Listen. My mom was one of those women, and she was a walking red flag. It shocks me how many men DO fall for the white knight routine. Personally it's not for me. I don't want to be "saved" and i don't want a man into "saving me." My husband and i describe our relationship as both fighting the dragon, and we've got each other's back. You want a partner, not an arrangement. There's nothing wrong with knowing what you want and waiting for it / going after it.
NTA
It is different if they stay at home until the kids are all at school, but to me, once your time frees up during school hours you should be contributing more to a household. The only exception to this would be if you have special needs kids with substantial numbers of appointments.
But I'm also driven enough that I hated having so much time for maternity leave (mostly boredom as not enough money to do what I wanted, and too much time to fill) even though the norm with most of my friends was to have a year off, I had 6 months off for our first and 8 for our second and for both wanted to go back early.
Cmon who the hell talks like this
NTA.
You'd be the AH if you put your daughter in a situation where her main female role model was someone who believed that a wonam's highest and best use in this is to be a SAHM so that, if one man dumps her, her only hope in life is finding another man to sponsor her lifestyle.
You did your daughter right!
To answer a couple of questions.
Both of my sisters are married, have children and are working.
Most of my social life takes place at my home as it is like the gathering place for family and friends.
Most of the single women I meet are through my daughter's soccer and softball games and Girl Scouts and that means they are divorced and have children, and almost every one of their circumstances are very similar.
I have dated women who never been married, have no children of their own and have careers, and most of them don't want to date men who have children.
I don't date anyone from work even though I have been attracted to couple of them and not under my direct authority.
Amy (not her real name) in a short time lost her job, her boyfriend of three years dumped her, and her parents sold their house that she lived in and moved to Florida. She has been great with my daughter, helped with her Girls Scout troop and soccer team. I helped her get a part time job after getting here and now she is going to start work full time in January. My only problem with her is that she would do anything to help and I want her to have her own life.
NTA for the most part, but "highest ambition is to be a SAHM" sounds pretty judgemental of you. Like there are things in life that rank "above" being a stay at home parent. It's not better or worse in terms of ambition I think. It's just being different, man. I say this as a career-driven woman. I think a SAHM is just as ambitious as me, but in a different field.
Like you, I am also worried about being seen for my money rather than myself, and ultimately being used. Nowadays I go out of my way to hide how well I'm doing and it's pretty much fixed that. I don't really feel the need to have a new car because I hate all the electronics though lol, so there's no immediate tip-off from the car but that'd be a huge change for you. 😭 Maybe you can find a way around that. I really recommend not showing her your house, going to neutral territory for dates, etc. Because you're a man you've got the neat excuse of chivalry if you want to pay for meals/dates without tipping the other person off that you're doing well.
If you watch someone else fall for you before they're aware of how well off you are, it is a game changer, I think.
I feel for their situation. A friend of mine had health issues, stayed home raising her kid, and now finds herself working at mcDonald's living in a garage while he sits on the hill in their giant house. A lot of women get screwed. But it's not your fault that their husbands walked out on them and left them in this position. Don't feel guilted into anything.
On the other hand, if you meet someone you actually like, I think it's silly to let something like them being a SAHM stop you. But it's your life.
I feel like this post is a fake story. Why would anyone write “Additional Dwelling Unit” like that
You’re a fucking alien and this is fake. Additional dwelling unit. Lmao.
Nta.
NTA. You know what you aren’t looking for in a relationship and there’s nothing wrong with that. A lot of times, women like this are looking for a sugar daddy, not always, but a lot of them are and if that’s not what you want that doesn’t make you a bad person. It sounds like you’ve several SAHM’s a chance and it hasn’t worked out for you so why your family thinks you’re in the wrong is beyond me.
NTA, you are well within your right to be picky about who you date, it's not your problem that these women want to be SAHM and you prefer a woman who is self sufficient.
NTA at all. However, don't assume that all women who were once a SAHM would want to do that again. Most of them would not want to take the risk of being in that position again if another marriage failed. Yes, many if not most of them would be glad to have a partner in life so that there was another adult sharing the financial burden, but the vast majority of them would not want to risk the situation that they find themselves in again. They would rather be financially independent.
NTA for wanting what you want and staying away from what you don’t, but you’re hosting and cooking for 30+ people, and your friends think your COUSIN (who’s helping) is taking up too much of your time?
“Oh sure, let me drop everything to chat with this woman you suprised me with. You go ahead and get the next load of dishes in the dishwasher!”
You have every right to date ambitious women if that's your preference lol the fact that anyone would argue this is mind blowing to me.
Sounds like a made up post. Most women are trad wifes and sahms, really? You're full of shit, another stupid fake post on this sub
you're allowed to date or not date anyone for any reason don't let anyone tell you otherwise
You’re discriminating against their personal life choice which is what they’re doing.
You're already supporting one child, why would you want to support two ?
Lol this dude just wanted to try amd brag about how much money he has
Just tell them that you’re not a “Trad Husband” so you don’t want to be introduced to anyone who is looking for one of those, because it’s not fair to them to waste their time when you’re not what they’re looking for.
NTA. You are not an ATM. No way would I marry a woman who won’t work do you can support some deadbeat PoS’ kids. No way.
When I am struggling financially, I don't date. I don't ask my partners to carry more than I can.
Totally the asshole making sure everyone knows how wealthy you are and you have ‘additional dwelling units’ etc ffs. Tbh you just sound like a bit of a twat.