Throw away account. My husband and I have been together for 19 years (married for 4) and we have a teenage daughter. We had her young and waited a long time to get married. Our relationship has been a struggle. I am definitely the adult as in I take care of everything. I handle the money and bills, I cook, I clean, I bought the house, I bought the cats. He works and that's his contribution, but I also work. Over the past few years it has gotten tiresome. I'm tired from doing everything and he says what can he do to help, but wants me to make him a list and ask him to do it every time. Why do I have to do that? Why can't you take it upon yourself to finish vacuuming if you see it's out and not complete? And when I do he doesn't even do the list. Or complains about having to do list.
Our biggest argument is sex. He wants to all the time. I do not. The more he asks and pressures me the less I want it. I have tried tell him that I don't feel like I want to be intimate because I don't feel like I have a partner, but more of a 2nd adult child. He gets very angry when I don't want to. He says that I am emotionally abusing by denying intimacy at all. Am I looking at it from only my side and not being fair to him and actually the asshole in this situation? I have made lists. He needs more lists
Edit: I do wfh but I work 8-7:30 m-f. He works out of the house about a 20 min commute. Our income is about the same. Hourly I make a dollar more not enough to hold over either of our heads.
NTA are there good parts about this relationship that you like?
A year ago I would of said yes. We had so much love between eachother. Now I feel like I have grown and he is still who he was 15 years ago and it honestly gives me the ick. I've been trying really hard, but I'm exhausted from trying it shouldn't be this much work
It’s ok to let this relationship go and find happiness.
Okay while I agree it's okay to get out of a relationship, don't just take a redditors advice. I would suggest doing couples counseling or something like that and see if you can work it out. You may find love again. Again, I'm also a Redditor, so no need to take my advice either.
While I'm a fan and in therapy myself, I really don't agree with the advice in cases like this. Why pay money to have another person explain to him how adulting works and that he needs to grow up and clean up after himself? I mean their daughter is already a teenager! I don't know how / why OP did it for this long, but this just feels like further coddling and prolonging the inevitable. The problem is quite clear cut.
I'm not being snarky here, but the therapist is gonna give them lists and things to work on and he's gonna do those? Work on himself? It'll just become another thing OP needs to harangue him about...
Edit: important missing letter
Agreed- even if he turns around right this very second, can you really trust someone who watched you struggle and work and didn’t care? I’ve found that for some boundaries I have, I simply can’t trust a person if it comes down to having to enforce the boundary.
It’s a slightly different situation, but my partner is dealing with a similar situation with his roommate- they were great friends, but after moving in together, the roommate has barely contributed to the household responsibilities, despite my partner having a chronic illness, working two jobs, and being in school. After many conversations where the roommate promised to do better, my partner said he wasn’t going to renew the lease. The roommate is now contributing (still very marginally) to household responsibilities and chores, but my partner feels the trust in the relationship is gone- it hurts to know that a friend is only willing to make changes when a consequence is imminent. My partner said, ‘I can see that they care about the relationship, but it doesn’t feel like they care about me.’
You are right. They need to be emotionally intelligent and aware of what their actions are doing to the people they say they love , and your needs have to be valued too and met, or it doesn't work and resentment sets in because you need different things than what they can offer you, its ok to put you and your daughter first, life is too short to be anything other than happy and its ok if you can't fix what once made you happy sometimes you have to let it go and put your needs first for a bit
All this
Sometimes there are other deeper emotional and mental issues at play. Has he ever seen a therapist that r been evaluated for ADHD, anxiety or depression. I can relate to your situation because in some aspects that was me. Going through life not seeing things and being aware, but I was a hard worker with a high income contribution. That does not zero out the issues.
Therapy and evaluation did help me and i am far more aware, engaged and active in our household. Not perfect but a big improvement and we are both happier.
Im not trying to excuse away the issues but undiagnosed and untreated issues do exist.
Idk man he seems really entitled to her body. Couples counseling isn't a magic bullet. This comes down to not respecting boundaries and that's not something you learn unless you to want to. He's so far gone he's calling the abusive for having boundaries he doesn't like.
hmmm i disagree. Hes calling OP emotionally abusive for saying no to sex lol.
He's had 19 years to figure it out and OP has been spoon feeding him the answers. He's not reeling from some kind of traumatic housecleaning related incident that has made participating in normal grownup chores difficult, theres nothing here he should need a therapists help to unpack. He's just lazy and slobbish and he knows he can make OP take care of him. Hes probably betting on her sunk cost to keep her here. It doesnt sound like he respects her or sees her as an individual. He sees her as a maid and sex dispenser.
Therapy can’t fix an unwilling partner.
He's been red pilled. "You're abusing me by not letting me use your body how I want to" is red pill rhetoric. Plus, he's angry she maintains her autonomy. No amount of therapy will help with that.
Oh man, I can relate to this comment. I also married young, me 18, him 21. And we started having kids, 2. After about 10 yrs and increasing arguments because we were both working, I made more money, had a more physical job and worked longer hours. And cooked all the meals, washed clothes, main cleaning, and homework with the kids. He pointed out one day, “you’ve changed”.. well, yes I did. I grew up. We were done a year later.
I am finalizing a divorce for most of these same reasons plus some emotional abuse.
I hope you live the beautiful life you deserve now!
The way you express happiness at this comment really shows your true desires for yourself.
You also deserve a beautiful life!
The audacity of calling you abusive while he’s getting angry everytime you say no to sex. Coercive behavior.
It’s DARVO. Deny attack reverse victim and offender.
OP, I’d do some individual counseling to give you the words to understand this dynamic. I wouldn’t do counseling with him - never go to a therapist with an abuser. They’ll use it to manipulate you further. In a pinch, read ‘Why does he do that?’ By Lundy Bancroft.
This is exactly true. This happened with my marriage and all that happened between couples therapy and his individual therapist was that he learned how to weaponize therapeutic words. And how to bend our situation just enough for his individual therapist to get her to agree with everything he was saying without her collaborating with of the other therapists.
Once you feel THE ICK you can never, ever unfeel it.
Stop cooking for him and don’t wash his clothes. Sleep in a different room or if you don’t have that option just don’t really acknowledge his tantrums. I’d tell him depending on how much you care about fixing things “I’m done and I’m close to a divorce. Figure it out or do 100 percent of the chores in your own house after the divorce.”
I went on an actual house work strike for 2 weeks. Guess what happened? Nothing. He though I was sick or something but never asked or brought up that nothing was being done.
2 weeks is not long enough. It needs to be a permanent strike
It ended up as one. I divorced him.
That's because he didn't want to do it! If he had said something, she would ask him"Then why don't you go do it?" Which would be a very good response to him! Been there done that!!
Girl, you deserve peace in your life, not forever being a mom and maid to an overgrown boy who is never turning into a man. Youre not overreacting, and your lack of desire for this oversized boy is warranted. He doesn't fucking do anything besides bring home a paycheck. Thats not enough. You weren't put on this earth to cook and clean up after him. I was about to call him "clueless" but he's not, he knows exactly what he's doing: less than the bare minimum. Please leave this "partnership" and build the life you want and deserve. He can go move back in with his mom and eat hot pockets.
Yeah, he's been given the clues, the map where "X" marks the spot, the goddamn password, and the decoder ring. He just doesn't care enough to actually try and change anything. This way is so much easier, after all.
This is such an important sentiment; this dude has been given all the opportunities it sounds like, and yet still will not make any additional effort. I’d be so hurt if I communicated this stuff to my partner and he still made no effort to grow, especially over such a long span of time.
My first marriage we were together 17 years, married 11. I grew up and he didn't. It was over long before it was finally over. Not long before my first marriage dissolved I very clearly recall telling my ex, if I'm going to do it all by myself, then I'll just do it by myself. That was my waking point. What does he offer me? Absolutely nothing. I'm so much happier now with my second marriage, and we both work to create a world where we respect and honor each other. I wasted too many years beyond when it should have been over to finally be done. Sometimes it just doesn't last and that's ok.
He's not going to change and is showing you who he is. Leave. You will be better off for it. I spent 20 years like this. It's not worth it.
And OP, you should leave so you can show your daughter what she should do in a toxic relationship. What you do now will tinge her relationships going forward. If you can’t do it for you, do it for her!
This part is SO IMPORTANT! It would have helped my girls immensely. I feel so terrible about the horrible example I set for them. I let myself be walked on and it damaged them in ways they are still unpacking. It's not only about you!!!!
Give yourself some grace, no parent is perfect and I'm sure they also have learned many good things from you.
This article should sound incredibly familiar to you, I suggest you have your husband read it as well.
Yeah it sounds like you're his mom and he never grew up.
You're not emotionally abusing him. Being your husband's mother is definitely not a turn on. He's an adult, he should know what has to be done and when. You've been the only adult for so long. You do and have done so many things for him and your family, and he complains when he doesn't even do half.
Just my opinion (this is my story btw by the similarities are startling) here, but im guessing you have always been a little resentful that you've been doing everything and he hasn't done anything without being prompted. So, basically you stopped prompting him and just did everything.
After so long,the resntfulness grew until it has begun to effect how you feel about him ( even subconsciously) and you just don't feel loving toward someone you view as a 2nd child.
Now, he can't understand why you don't want to have sex because he doesn't think anything is wrong because you didn't actually confront the issue consistently, just sort of tapered off and stopped after so long.
Now, you have effectively "checked out" and he's lost because he has no clue.
That is MY story. We did counseling for 2 years. The divorce was final 18 years ago and I've been happily remarried 12 years to a guy who rinses dishes and takes out trash without a list.
Congratulations on hitting that age, where women lose their patience and run out of fucks. So many look around, realize they aren’t happy, deserve better, shouldn’t have to be the designated grownup in their relationship or parent their partner, and demand more. NTA
You're right, it shouldn't be. And a lot of men like this only learn by getting left behind. You deserve happiness.
I just got finished with a divorce, once I realized I just didn't love him anymore, he had treated me badly for so long it was hard to even remember what it felt like to love him. The sex stuff seems super similar, the more he pressured me for sex the less I wanted to have it and it became a constant source of stress in my life, it felt like a chore I needed to get done, and it was hard to even get myself into it enough for things to work.
Divorce is honestly great, I have so much more social energy and energy for my kid now that I'm not around the emotional black hole that my ex was, and don't have constant sex stress. Once the love is gone, once he gives you the ick, there really is no going back.
I feel like you have your answer.
What is love for you, OP? I ask genuinely. Is it expecting and even demanding everything from a partner while giving nothing? Love isn't just words, it's actions. He has been watching you struggle for years and has done nothing to help you. He thinks himself entitled to your labor while doing jack shit for the home you share. And he calls you emotionally abusive for not spreading your legs on command; that's also entitlement and manipulation and even coercion. Stop trying, life is too short to live it like this.
Once you get The Ick its so hard to get rid of
Nta it’s hard being attracted to someone who makes you act like his mother
If you want to try to balance the work load you could try seeing if they’ll read the book FairPlay with you. Get the card deck too. It’ll help balance the domestic load and mental load if he does it with you.
You’re not emotionally abusive he’s behaving like a child. It’s gross.
You have overstayed with this man. After 19 years, your resentment has finally set in. It’s not going to get better. Get out now, and find someone who wants to be in a 50/50 relationship. Not 100/0.
NTA. There’s nothing sexy about a man baby and no bigger turn off than being pressured into sex when you’re not feeling it.
And honestly no one wants to have sex with a man-baby.
Sexual coercion is sexual abuse. Before the physical abuse started my abusive ex told me “it’s abusive of women to deny their husbands sex.” This is the same. It sounds worse than a red flag to me. Please take good care of yourself and be careful.
Oh God. This is the guilt trip I used to get. He was soooo upset he had to jack off in the bathroom. Ummmm, what? I was the designated cum receptacle apparently. No other place was acceptable. Ick, ick, ick, ick!
So many men do this. After 12 years my husband still never learned to respect my boundaries around sex, and honestly everything else. And he will never understand how messed up it was for him to do that to me. He actually thinks there is equal fault on both sides as to why our marriage fell apart when he has disrespected my boundaries from day one. It's just much worse than anything I ever did and he acts like it's no biggie and a totally normal way to behave.
But until the 90's it was legally impossible for a husband to "rape" his wife
This is a very dangerous way to think. He is DARVO-ing you to avoid responsibility, but it has taken on a very sinister tone by accusing you of abuse for denying access to your body.
This is coercion. This is a gross and dangerous thought that should never have passed his lips…but it did. He is telling you who he is and has been for 19 years. It is time to listen.
This is not a good man with respectful views of women, but at the very least this is not a good partner. He is using you and the dynamic where he foes nothing is overbaked. Get out ASAP.
Yeah it is DARVO and is scary as hell.
Agreed! Your husband is a horrible human being. DTMFA
Coercion to have sex is emotional abuse, he is the abusive one. No one finds a manchild attractive, you need to divorce.
It not attractive to sulk because you're not getting sex on demand. My ex never understood that if he did some chores then maybe I wouldn't be dead tired at bedtime and might have some energy.
Yeah, funny how not doing wifely duties is abuse but not lifting your finger is peak husbanding.
You don't 'owe him' sex. If he wants you to be open to it, he might wanna try being more desirable.
Also, you don't have to wait for him to pull the plug in this marriage.
If you're both clearly unhappy, what's keeping from making the hard decisions? It's not like he will magically become responsible and take initiative.
NTA
In regards to being more desirable, I've had the selfish lover struggle with my partner.
I told them I needed them to bring signs of affection, romance, and foreplay to the table. I need also need affection, compliments, snuggles without immediate sex demands to feel desire. If I think I am being treated like a vending machine, it leaves me cold. My partner heard me, and it helped. OP if you want to desire your husband more, you may need to be direct. Although, if he continues being an AH in general that may not help.
NTA. He sounds pathetic. And I'm a man, if it makes any difference.
Denying sex is not "emotional abuse". Sex is supposed to be something both partners want and gain pleasure from. Agreeing to sex when you don't want to because you feel pressured is far more "emotional abuse" towards you than denying it is towards him. Tell him to go have a wank.
Nothing will turn on a woman more like handling all the chores by herself because her husband doesn’t want to contribute. /s
Are you familiar with the mental load? It sounds like you have been doing most of it and he has ended his contribution at bringing in a n income, even though you also financially contribute.
https://youtube.com/shorts/JjQGmobulcg?si=pI_Q0YawGcg1nqZP
https://youtube.com/shorts/axhQg1MiIKo?si=9bdbHEkcAf4Efszi
https://youtube.com/shorts/HXbe9MhvUis?si=PcfmllQxmSRPFSey
I recommend watching some of these shorts and videos by Jimmy Does Relationships cause he talks a lot about the exact problems you are explaining in your post. I'm sorry you're going through this but you are absolutely not abusing your husband and in fact he may be emotionally abusing you.
Hahaha that's so funny. Is he aware coercion is a form of sexual abuse?
NTA, most comments here focus on him trying to coerce you into sex. But it's deeper than this. It's a fine example of weaponized incompetence, and him asking for a list would be the last straw for me. Either communicate about setting a more equal chore system or get into therapy about this (or let the man go as any redditor would quickly suggest). You've been working overtime for a while now and he doesn't even know what needs doing around the house. You're adulting for the both of you and you're so mentally (and of course physically) that your libido could be non existent. He doesn't see all this(which is the problem that needs working out), he just sees that you suddenly turn down intimacy. He needs to pull his weight in your marriage and I'd still suggest therapy for his coercive tendencies, this shouldn't be his go-to response to saying no. Good luck OP, your husband doesn't know how to husband and I see little chance of him wanting to fix it.
Note: if you choose to leave him, he may suddenly become perfect and do everything exactly the way you want it. Do NOT fall for it. If you stay, as soon as he sees that you’ve changed your mind, he’ll revert back to his old ways.
NTA. You're not his bang maid. Talk to him about weapons education incompetence and how you are carrying the mental load.
*weaponized?
NTA at all. He is not being “emotionally abused” because you don’t want to have sex with a man who treats you like his mom and housekeeper.
You’ve told him exactly why your drive is gone and instead of stepping up as a partner he’s trying to guilt you into sex, which is the opposite of sexy. If anything it sounds like you’re burned out and he’s weaponizing “intimacy” to avoid doing the bare minimum.
I'm so tired of "not having sex with me is abuse!" Bitch shut the entire fuck up. Your wife is an entire human fucking being and no one owes you sex. Not even your spouse. I'm fucking tired of men who think a wife is nothing but a bang maid. NTA
NTA, he sounds like a child.
NTA. He is sexually coercing you, using therapy-speak as a weapon.
Who is attracted to a toddler who can’t take care of himself? NTA.
Welp it makes perfect sense as to why you don’t feel a sexual pull to a person who you view as a 2nd adult child and for a good reason
NTA, tell him that emotionally abusing him would be engaging in false intimacy and faking it. It’s hard to be intimate with someone who depends on you for everything physically and emotionally like a child does. He can’t handle basic adulting without your instructions. That his inability to step up and be an equal adult partner has over time lessen your ability to see him as a grown man and sexual partner. You finding it difficult to be sexually attracted to someone treating you like their mother. He needs to be a real partner outside the bedroom to be thought of as one inside the bedroom. He has created this situation by being lazy and dumping all the relationship and cohabitation work on you. If he wants to be treated like a grown ass man and partner then he needs to act like one.
(F) Husband hired a counselor. Best decision ever. We are separating. Both of us are at peace with the idea. As the counselor told me quietly at the end of our last private session. You will be getting the better end of this.
He sees you as a sexual slave and a household slave and you're asking if you're the asshole? Come on, now, get real!
If he truly believes that, then he can and should leave. Nobody should stay with someone they truly believe is abusing them. Using the "you are abusing me" claim, and then not leaving, is actually abuse. It's manipulative and meant to gain the upper hand in a relationship. Usually used by the person who wants to keep the upper hand in a relationship.
Ask him to define "abuse" and expand on what he means. I bet at the core of it is that he's not getting what he wants, and he expects to.
Unless something else is going on (which is entirely possible), and based solely on what you said here, NTA.
Unfortunately, I think your time with him is done. It's abusive the way he pressures you. There is no way you would want him after he behaves like a child.
I agree with the other people that your resentment has been building over nineteen years. Unless there's some miraculous change on his part. I don't see this working.
For me, I was in a similar situation, I didn't want to have to have sex when he wanted it all the time because it was like you aren't doing anything for me or the house or the cats etc why should I do this for you when you can't even take 10 minutes to clean up the new you made. I'm not saying sex was transactional, I just felt like my personal time wasn't respected, my contribution and expects to keep everything running smoothly and he just became a child who made messes and played video games and wanted sex without being a true partner.
Relationships run their course. I think you need to move on.
Leave and be happy. After my 2nd child i didnt want sex for 2 years and my husband LOVED me through the healing to get back to that point. No pressure, no resentment, just noticing I needed time and space and providing it bc he loves me. You deserve that. Everyone deserves to be loved like that.
NTA. If I had to ask my husband to help around the house like a child, my nethers would dry up so fast we'd never have sex again.
He's gaslighting you. That is not abuse. Him pressuring you and having a tantrum when you say no, however, is coercive and abusive
That is DARVO. It is not emotional abuse to refuse consent. He is free to determine what works from him and make decisions accordingly including asking you to open the relationship, ending the relationship, or just stepping up like an actual partner so maybe you'd actually have the energy and desire for sex. It *is* abusive to get angry at you in an attempt to force you to have sex with him.
Came here to say this. He isn't being abused. He's using DARVO and weoponized incompetence against her.!
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Tell him you would probably feel like having sex more if the household is being taken care of. It’s amazing how a partner actively participating and taking the trash out, washing dishes, doing a load of laundry, etc. can act as an aphrodisiac.
Telling you to make a list for him and ask him to do it every time is called weaponized incompetence. He knows how to do it, but he wants you to tell him because its easier but also because it wears you down and eventually you'll just do it yourself. That's what he wants.
The sex thing is manipulative. Turn it around on him. Tel him HE is being emotionally abusive by demanding sex when you're not in the mood. Intimacy has to go both ways. What is he doing to make you want to have sex with him? Acting like a child? Is that what you deserve from a partner?
Feeling like you’re someone’s mom instead of their wife is definitely going to lower the desire to have sex with them. The lack of intimacy is a symptom of what’s going on, not the cause. If all he wants to talk about is lack of sex while ignoring the factors leading to it, it’s like you’re continually hanging band-aids without asking why you keep bleeding.
He is actually abusing you by saying that. No one owes sex to no one even he is the best hubs around.
NTA, men dont realize that most women are not sexually attracted to childlike behavior.
NTA it's not emotional abuse to decline having sex when you are not in the mood. It's very manipulative of him to try to guilt trip you into it when you don't want to though.
What he is doing is sexual coercion: hes making you feel bad with the hopes that you give in and sleep with him. Hes using weaponized incompetence: he needs a list??? Im assuming his eyes, ears and nose all function. Youre doing the same amount of physical work, he just isnt doing any cleaning and expects you to put out when you do all the emotional labor.
All of that is abuse
NTA. It might be time to divorce.
Perhaps if he got off his butt and actually helped you around the house you might him more sexually attractive. He should consider that this is totally a HIM problem and not a you problem. HE is the abusive one by shirking his responsibilities for the family home. NOT YOU.
NTA
NTA. He is not being abused, he is being asked to be an adult. After 19 years, he is unlikely to change or take any responsibility for his refusal to change. Unless you want to parent your husband, it may be time to move on rather than continuing to model this type of relationship for you daughter.
Increasingly, I believe that the best attitude to have is: keep going and then stop.
Lots of examples in my life where I've committed to something and doggedly stuck with it, despite the activity/friendship/investment becoming pointless or even harmful. It's called sunk cost fallacy.
I suppose that things are different when a teenager is involved, but that doesn't mean you can't end the relationship, still looking out for the teenager's welfare.
You need to be willing to look at a situation and quit instead of pretending "never quit" or "through thick and thin" or whatever.
Ultimately this applies to life itself: keep going and then stop, instead of hanging on to an increasingly unpleasant, useless or burdensome existence.
Have a little pride.
Also, demanding sex when you're obviously not getting on. WTF
Why are you still putting up with this shitty excuse for a man?
Is this how you want your daughter to grow up and let herself be treated by some piece of trash like that? This is what you are modelling as normal and okay for relationships.
NTA and his weaponizing of therapy speak is really vile.
Think how much less exhausted you will be when you're not caring for this manbaby.
NTA why are you with this guy? You do not have a partner. You have a second child who thinks he's entitled to your body whenever he wants.
My ex husband was the same way. We met when I was 16 and he was 18. I got pregnant when I was 17 and we got married. And I wasted 33 years of my life being completely miserable with him. I finally left him and I can't even tell you how much of a relief it is to be free. I found peace and happiness again. 99% of my life stress evaporated as soon as I left. I wish I did it years ago instead of wasting so many years trying to make things work. You can't make him become the man you want and need... and deserve. You deserve better.
He gets angry when you don't have sex? If anyone is emotionally abusive, it's him. NTA
It’s pretty normal for women to lose sexual attraction to someone they feel is a dependent rather than a partner, especially when all the additional work you do at your unpaid second job (parenting and running the household) makes you physically and emotionally exhausted. NTA. Maybe if he made things easier for you around the house without you having to micromanage him (which is also work), you’d have the energy for this kind of fun.
Break up with him 😭😭 I’m sure your daughter would be grateful for that too
You don't need him. You have a full time job, you have your house and your cats. Get about five more cats and he might leave of his own accord.
NTA….Tell him he is emotionally abusing you by asking for something giving nothing in return.
NTA. You're overwhelmed because you're taking on twice the workload and anyone's libido would take a nosedive dealing with that.
ok this would drive me nuts. being the "mother" in a romantic relationship isn't sexy! but also
this is SA, NTA
NTA. I’ve been the you in this situation (basically raising a man baby that whined when he couldn’t get his way). This is not going to change, and this is not the example you want set for your child; especially your daughter. How would you feel is she comes home one day, and tells you that this is happening to her? If you bought the home, pay the bills, and he’s not helping you; why do you need him?
NTA. You’re clearly burnt out as hell and he’s trying to emotionally manipulate you into having sex with him. That’s not healthy.
NTA
That's some nasty projection he's got going on there. You aren't the abuser, you're the one being abused if anyone is. He needs to get his head out his behind and actually have a look at reality.
NTA - if you don't want to have sex with a person you are in a relationship with, you do not have to have sex with them. And that's not what emotional abuse is, full stop. Him having sex with you when you do not want to, by contrast, is rape.
Why do you not want to have sex with him? Likely because he is doing nothing that attracts you, emotionally speaking. Currently, he is nothing but a burden to you. He needs to both understand that and change it if he wants the situation to change. He may or may not be capable of that.
NTA. If he wants more sex he needs to step up and learn how to adult so you don’t have to take care of him like a toddler.
Nothing makes a woman drier than a husband who is more like a child than a partner. NTA and not emotionally abusive based on this info.
NTA. I am in a similar situation. Having to do everything with no help unless I ask and he actually remembers to do it. I am responsible for everything including his doctor’s appointments etc or they don’t happen. It makes me resent him and is a huge turn off. I have zero interest in being physical with him. I am too busy and stressed trying to remember everything while he gets to do nothing or whatever he wants so no I don’t feel doing that for him too.
NTA. He needs to change and grow up. It’s not your job to do the work to change him. There is an excellent men’s coach called Alessandro Froseli that works in this area. The only chance you should give him is the chance to help himself. Make it clear the relationship is no longer working or even there. At the same time protect yourself and your peace. You’ve spent a long time doing the work for something that may be terminal.
NTA. All of what the others have commented. Plus - he will cheat. He is the no accountability, high entitlement type. He will need a woman who looks at him like an adult and leader - despite who he is. He won’t change his delusions is easy for him, change would be work. This isn’t how a partner shows up.
Mental load
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/26/gender-wars-household-chores-comic
I came here just to say I feel for you, because my marriage sounds very similar. We’ve been married 21 years next week and I am so fed up. We have 3 kids though, and I can’t really afford to divorce. I’m so tired of feeling like my husband is another child. We both work full time out of the house with a 45 min commute, and I am also in grad school. He plays video games on his computer and every single day when he’s not working or sleeping. He does help with the kids (that’s never really been an issue, thank god). But now that they’re teenagers, it really just involves driving them where and when needed. I am starting to resent him so much. Whenever I bring it up, I just get called controlling.
If you don't want to have sex with him it's because you don't like him. If he took some of the mental load off you and took you out on dates and gave you attention and non-sexual attention that would probably change. But he won't. Cut your losses and leave now. Don't be like me and waste 36 years on Mr. Wrong.
You do realize he’s a petulant child and actually “emotionally abusing” you?
This is what you do OP.
Sit him down. Tell him he needs to get his shit together. You want a partner that puts in effort.
You are willing to go to couple’s therapy and look for a solution, but he needs to show that he is also willing to put in effort.
DONT get in any extended discussion / arguing. Give him the message. Try not to engage much about house chores for a week after. Give him time to digest this.
If he sulks, you need to see if you can tolerate it. If you are having sex out of obligation / keeping peace, I would cut it off completely if he doesn’t improve.
There is no reason for you to have sex with him just for his sake. That’s sexual coercion, which is much shittier than any imaginary emotional abuse.
NTA. He’s a manchild that needs to grow up.
This is why grey divorce is such a common thing. You're almost done raising an actual child. Why would you want a permanent manchild who weaponizes incompetence?
This is coercion.
Healthy adult women don't want to have sex with children, or pretend children. You can break up with anyone at any time for any or no reason. The magic words are:
✨This relationship does not meet my needs.✨
So you work almost 12 hours 5 days in a row, do all the cooking, all the cleaning, and all the adult tasks. What do you see in this machine? Nta but you'd be much better off without him
Someone who calls you an abuser for wanting basic body autonomy is, get this, actually the abuser
So basically he is using weaponized incompetence, acting like a child instead of a grown man, you are doing everything for him and he is using sex/guilt against you while crying abuse. You aren't abusing him, he is abusing you. You are being emotionally, financially and sexually abuse. You may want to really rethink this relationship. How is it benefitting you at all? It sounds really toxic. You are already handling everything yourself, so how bad would it be with a toxic weight off your shoulders?
You’re not. He’s treating you like it’s your job to tell him what to do as if he were a teenager reminding him to do chores. He’s not behaving like a partner. You’re not emotionally abusing him. Why would you be attracted to someone you have to act as mommy for? He has eyes, he can see when things need to be done. It’s not helping, it’s pulling his weight.
If he wants more sex, he should try being more desirable. Tit for tat
NTA, ive been in an emotionally abusive relationship and frankly i find that this person claims that not wanting to have sex is emotionally abusive is absolutely disgraceful and frankly insulting to everything people go through in those situations
What he's doing with the housework is weaponized incompetence and letting you carry 100% of the mental load. Therapists say it is the most common reason for divorce. What he's doing with sex is red pill entitlement issues and indicates lack of respect and underlying misogyny. You don't have a partner, you have a manchild.
It's hard to be turned on and be intimate with a man baby.
He needs pull up his big boy pants, and turn you on in the way that works.... doing chores unprompted like an adult.
So what does this man bring to your life that is good?
My husband and I have been together for 18 years and we recently had the conversation about the mental load, the amount of stuff I am required to do as the woman/mom in the house, and how he just goes on with his life as though this is how everything should be. I put my foot down, said that we were no longer a couple, we will live together as friends in our own rooms until we can both afford to live on our own. Because at the end of the day we are, at the heart of it, best friends.
But I was done. Done feeling like a mother of 4 instead of 3, done being the one responsible for everything. I told him that if he thought I was attracted to someone I have to parent just as much as the children he was the one who was the problem.
Perimenopause has drained my "I give a shit" hormone, and we are telling it like it is in 2025 and making this man child understand that it is time to grow up.
NTA. Sounds like he's trying to guilt trip you into sex.
The mental gymnastics of believing “withholding intimacy” as worse than coercion of intimacy is Olympic.
You're incompatible. You'll both be happier on your own.
It's better to be alone than to wish you were.
The 19 years is a sunk cost. Don't let that be the reason you stay.
SHE will be happier. He will be another “victim” of the “male loneliness epidemic” saying, “It came out of nowhere!!” and totally confused as to why no other woman wants a manchild like him.
so, lemme get this straight: your husband is unwilling to do the things that are important to you, and he's calling you abusive for being unwilling to do the things that are important to him.
NTA.
I just had the same argument with my child's father not 30 minutes ago. Someone is listening. Anyway, I'm so glad we're not married. I wouldn't marry him if he was the last man on earth. We have a 10 year old son and I'm fine coparenting as roommates. Men are dumb, stupid and slow. Everytime I bring up having quality time, he starts yelling and says I'm goofy. When I ask him to rub my back he asks what's wrong with your back. What a numbskull. So we're in the same boat. What's good about posting is the opportunity to vent. But it's really not the solution. I feel the solution is therapy.
Definitely NTA. Have you tried any version of counseling at all? Not that it would be a total fix but sometimes having a 3rd party can provide clarity.
It is not advisable to do counseling with an abuser. Individual though - might help OP find strength.
He’s a jerk. That’s not at all what emotional abuse is. That’s not consenting to do it with a man who you treats you like a servant or mommy.
NTA. You're not abusing him. Being pressured to have sex is not conducive to feeling sexy. Please tell him that. And you can work with him on his pitching in, but it's really okay to feel like you shouldn't have to tell him every time. You're putting in a lot of effort, and it's fair to expect him to put in a lot of effort, too.
That sounds like he's gas lighting you.
NTA and your husband is a man child. Oh you work?? Okay? Do you cook? Clean? Did you buy the house? What about groceries? No? Then you’re a bum in your relationship.
OP, you sound like you’ve been exhausted by a man who has no sense of genuine responsibility. He’s been able to coast off of you this entire time and not have to forfeit his own comfort. He expects you to mommy him and then open your legs so he can feel like a big man. That’s stupid as shit. He’s a bum and a leech. Working is the bare minimum an adult is expected to do. He isn’t special for holding down a job.
You’re not the asshole in the slightest. He is someone who has taken advantage of you and still expects more.
Also? Sexual coercion is abuse and considered assault. Your husband is the one abusing you by forcing you into giving in and having sex with him.
NTA go Google DARVO and tell me if it sounds familiar
20th century male in a 21st century relationship.
This used to be normal, but we expect more from men these days.
He needs to do his share of duties as a partner without being asked.
It's not "if I do certain things, I get sex" kind of a deal either.
No one, even guys, if they're exhausted will want sex. Most of you know this once you hit your late 30s and 40s. Sleep & energy become such precious commodity. If one partner is only doing bulk of the house duties on top working, something has to give.
Work is work. Even if you, as a wife didn't work but took care of your daughter after school on top of doing house work instead, that's still a full time job and being a parent. Just because you work away from home doesn't give anyone more right.
He's manipulating you at this point and it's not fair to you at all. When you have to question your own sanity, there's a huge issue.
Is marriage counseling an option? Sometimes it takes another person's perspective to open their eyes on what's happening and what could be improved.
And sometimes, people don't realize it until splitting or divorcing comes into play. Hopefully, it doesn't get to that point, but you also don't deserve to be miserable, either if things do not change.
If you want to salvage this relationship, go to a couples therapist. Nta tho. He should contribute as much as you do
Nope, he can see himself all the way out the door and you lock it behind him.
There is no saving this because he is weaponizing therapy speak to manipulate and coerce you into sex.
What you want from him is called the Mental Load. It means looking around and seeing what needs to be done and doing it without being asked or needing a list. It's okay to ask some clarifying questions but as an adult, he should be able to look around the house and see what needs to be done, and just do it.
Of course you don't want to have sex with him. He doesn't do anything to help you as a partner but expects your body to be of use to him. Hell to the no on that one.
Talk with a few divorce lawyers and when you find one you like, follow their advice. This won't get better.
Be ready for him to love bomb you and promise all sorts of things, he may even start doing those things. Just remember, all that shows is he was aware and capable the whole time and chose not to.
Do not be swayed by those actions that will not last.
Don't fall into the sunk cost fallacy of "but I've already invested so much into him", just look at it as not wasting anymore on a failed investment. Your child will be better off seeing you stand up for yourself, and by proxy, her too.
NTA but you will be to yourself and your child if you stay with a leech like this.
He is not adult enough to do the mental load. This guy talks about it https://thedadedge.com/the-emotional-load-shes-carrying-and-youre-not-seeing/
The bar is in hell.
NTA. I’m a man. I was married to a woman-child. I divorced because of the same reasons you’re unhappy. Get out asap. You will be soooo happy and free!!! It will feel surreal how happy you’ll be.
NTA Maybe you would feel more interested in it if you would have less stress 😀 More freetime ? More me-Time? Less Toddler Husband behaviour?
Demanding you do everything and then please him in bed like a maid is just insane. I hope you find a better Guy
I hate men like your husband. They make people like me look bad. I have a couple different medical and psychological conditions that effect me in such a way that communication needs to be more solid than one might expect. And my memory is effected in such a way that a list is pretty much necessary. And the physical parts make it so I have good days and bad. Even on my bad days I try to do a little at least. But on my good days I'm a damn productive machine.
My partner knows this. We communicate almost daily. (I say almost because his work schedule is vastly different from mine, so some days we do go without talking much, especially if I'm really not doing well that day because I'm not capable of much but sleeping those days.)
But my point is, lists can be an effective form of communication if that's what the partner needs. But that must be communicated respectively and then it actually has to make at least somewhat of a difference. That is not what happened here.
This is not a partner struggling with neurological functions like I do. That is a man-child trying to excuse his behavior by any means necessary.
I applaud you for making the lists when he asked and I empathize with you that it was with a man who weaponized it instead of actually needing it. And I hate him for perpetuating the narrative of needing a list excuses his laziness because getting that list didn't fix it.
That man got an accommodation some people like me don't get in relationships because their partners either don't think they need it or they worry about this exact scenario and he fucked it up.
I am very lucky my partner and I communicate well and often about what we both need from each other. But others aren't so lucky and this behavior spits on them.
He's asking for lists to put you off and delay things. NTA. He is, though, because he's accusing you of abuse because you don't want sex. That's so ridiculous.
You should consult a divorce lawyer and see how you feel afterwards.
Please please please check out Liberating Motherhood, Zawn Villines. Read as much as you can, I think it’s $10 for her paywall and you can read for a month to assess your situation. She speaks on this A LOT and can in-depth explain how he’s in fact abusing you, attempting to coerce sex, gaslighting/DARVO manipulating you and weaponizing incompetence. You are NTA. There’s a darn good reason 70% of marriages are ended by women, I think from 40+ year old women like yourself, fatigued by the same bs husbands. You deserve better. Please take care of yourself, and check out Zawn’s writings. I think it’ll be life changing for you
Ultimately you knew what he was like and decided to stay hoping he'll change, but they never change. You just have to leave.
You are not emotionally abusing him by not being interested in sex with someone who does not care about your feelings or happiness. HE is emotionally abusing YOU by becoming enraged and guilt tripping you when you don’t want to have sex.
The next list you should make is one of divorce lawyers and their contact info.
NTA. I don’t think you’re being emotionally abusive. As a teenager/ in my early 20s, I also felt that people denying me sex or intimacy were victimizing me. I felt hurt, frustrated, and like I wasn’t getting the affection back from my partners that I’d been pouring into them. Turns out, I was being abusive and me getting angry was just coercing my partners into having sex with me. Yes, I wasn’t getting what I needed in those relationships, but that’s because what I needed wasn’t sex, it was therapy. Any amount of intimacy would never have been enough because I didn’t know how to regulate my own emotions, resolve conflict, or have healthy boundaries.
All of which is to say, I see where your husband is coming from, but he’s in the wrong here. You don’t owe anyone intimacy, you don’t need to guide your partner into adulthood.
NTA
Sounds like your looking for a partnership but I don't think yall are on the same page. Yall need to sit down and make a plan detailing household tasks and dividing responsibilities. If he can't do that, there's no hope for resolving the sex issue.
4 years ago was strange time and, while I'm always gonna advocate for at least a little couples counseling, I don't blame anyone who got married then for getting divorced now
Have you heard about the mental load? You are carrying work load, emotional load, and the mental load. Of course you are exhausted and not in the mood. When you carry this much, you can’t carry the intimacy load as well.
A task is done in three steps: 1) Notice the task, 2) Plan the task, 3) Solve the task. He expects you to always solve 2/3s of the task (the mental work). You are the project manager of the household, and your husband and daughter are team members expecting to be instructed.
You have two options, as I see it:
A) Go into therapy with him with a therapist that works with dynamics and know about the mental load. That way he might grow with you and begin to take on the equal amount of project managing in your home. That also means that you will have to let go sometimes and accept a different approach and solutions that might not match your expectations re quality. It’s a long hard road for both of you - and maybe worth it. Only you know.
B) Get a divorce.
(Edits: misspelling.)
NTA. Yes, withholding sex CAN be used as emotional abuse. However, I don't think it is in your case. You don't want to have sex because you don't feel connected to him. You're not doing it to punish or manipulate him. You're tired, you feel alone, you feel disconnected, why would you want to have sex? People want to have sex with someone who makes them feel loved and safe, not alone.
Being pressured for sex is 1000% NO.
I’m sorry, but I think he’s crossing a line he can’t walk back, furthermore, he thinks he’s right.
This is emotionally and sexually unsafe.
Protect your safety.
Put EVERYTHING you can think of on a list and hand it to him over and over. For good measure put the definition of "Weaponized Incompetence" at the bottom. Ask him when you became his mother when you hand him the list. Honestly, I am sick to death of man children. How about you?
NTA, dump the loser.
NTA. Here's the bottom line, the more you have to treat him like a child, the less you will want to have sex with him. Mothers are not attracted to their children (as a general rule because abuse does happen). We want equal partners and/or providers, not an adult size children.
HE DOESN'T WANT A PARTNER, HE WANTS A NANNY MOMMY BANG MAID. It is not emotional SA to not want to have sex with your husband. It IS emotional SA/coercion on his part though
the wild thing about this is that he is actually the one emotionally abusing YOU by saying this. sex is never owed to anyone by anyone else, regardless of relationship. trying to pressure or manipulate someone into having sex that they do not want, is sexual coercion, which is a crime. marriage does not equal consent, marital rape is still rape, and thus his behaviour is no less heinous than if it were a stranger trying to emotionally blackmail you into sex. in fact, i would say it’s worse, because this is a man who has sworn to love and protect you.
and about the chores - you are talking about bearing the burden of “the mental load” alone. it’s a problem so many women have in their relationships, and a topic of much modern feminist thought. i would encourage you to read this comic, and definitely show it to your husband (if you do choose to stay with that worm)
NTA he sounds like a child and he's manipulating you. You cant emotionally abuse someone by not having sex/ not giving consent, its absolutely disgusting he's pressuring you. Remember that "No" is a complete sentence and you shouldn't be treated like this.
Big NTA. He's the AH. You told this dude you don't want to have sex with him because you're essentially his mother and his response is to get angry and accuse you of emotional abuse. Dude. Throw the whole husband out. "Our relationship has been a struggle" honestly says it all.
This is weaponized incompetence and sexual coercion. Your marriage could come back from this, but only if he's willing to do the work. There are content creators that share about being a "recovering man child" and help coach men on how to stop leaving all the mental labor on their partners' shoulders. He also explains why those partners aren't interested in having sex when their emotional needs are not met and they view the man as another child. If he wants to look into that and grow, cool. If not, I don't think there's any coming back from this.
He sounds like a lazy narcissist 🤷🏻
NTA.
Tell him if he wants you to be sexually attracted to him, he needs to behave like an adult man who doesn't need coddling. You'll be interested when you're not parenting him. When he treats you like a partner, not his mommy.
Sexual abuse.
Abusers often try to claim full victim status for themselves to deflect responsibility.
https://www.thehotline.org/resources/types-of-abuse/
Your daughter grew up thinking this kind of one sided relationship is normal and okay.
It’s not okay.
You can show her by example that she doesnt have to settle for a one sided relationship.
NTA
No way would I live like that
Why stay together if you don’t even like him? Let him go.
Marriage counseling doesn’t always work. It’s up to each partner to compromise and many won’t. I think I’d start finding other choices for you and when you have them secure, separate for a few months. I think after giving him a chance to grow up you can make your decision then. Unfortunately so many men throw away what they want because they won’t even try.
Sadly, some me have been so coddled by their Mothers, that by the time they reach 'adulthood' (in ', because some never make it that far!) they're too old to teach how they should behave, as half of a couple.
Sadly, some me have been so coddled by their Mothers, that by the time they reach 'adulthood' (in ', because some never make it that far!) they're too old to teach how they should behave, as half of a couple.
Ask him if his boss gives him a list of things to get done everyday. Bet I know the answer.
NTA. My list would have one item on it: 1. Fuck outta here
Your husband doesn't understand the definition of emotional abuse. But he does know what weaponized incompetence is.
Just because you're married doesn't mean he's entitled to sex with you whenever he wants. He doesn't own your body, and marriage vows don't negate the right to bodily autonomy. He is not entitled to your body, and the fact that he thinks he is, AND is accusing you of being abusive for saying no is in and of itself abusive behavior!
You deserve so much better. NTA.
Signed, Someone married for 20 years whose husband would never
I was in the same relationship except I wanted sex more than him, and at that point I just had to face that he was useless to me. Not a partner in life, no help at home, not even a sexual partner. I left him, married an actual adult and I am so much happier.
This was my life. Almost exactly. It’s fucking exhausting. I’m sorry you have been stuck like this for so long. Separate from him because giving into this kind of manipulation from him will not end well for you. You will get more of what you already have an abundance of. For me, it led to me not wanting to live anymore.
What I did was work hard to break my codependent life with my husband. There are lots of tools out there for such- Google will help. Eventually he will not like the version of you left but you will love you. And he can either shape up or ship out.
Tell him he’s emotionally abusing you by not being able to adult. Why would you want to have sex with someone you have to be a mommy to? Tell him when he starts acting like an adult and pulling his weight, your interest may return. But it certainly won’t if/when he pouts like a child.
If he pressures you into having sex and it happens that's rape
NTA. Refusing sex is never abusive. He can masturbate. Forcing sex, in the other hand, would be rape. He try to force for you to do it to not upset him. He is trying to emotionally manipulate you. He is the one who can become abusive if you let it slide.
NTA.
Not wanting to have sex is not emotional abuse. Women’s libidos are tied to their mental state, and taking care of a man baby definitely is going to leave you feeling less likely to be turned on.
He’s using that language “emotional abuse” specifically to guilt and coerce you into sex. Sexual coercion is sexual abuse FYI.
I think if you don’t feel genuine attraction, then it’s your right to say no. But why stay in this marriage? What’s the point? You don’t need his financial support. You don’t have a young child together. Just get divorced already.
NTA. Are youarried to my exhusband?
Your husband is behaving like a child, which is not sexy. Smashing a man-baby is pedophilic.
I think you two how more issues going on, but try hiring someone to clean the house every week. Make him pay for it.
I know a lady who is in the same situation. But she’s not leaving, yet still hates the predicament. The child is priority 1 though.
OP is NTA