This video examines the homosocial-ness of Christianity. I think a lot of people here will find it interesting and it will be helpful for those who are deconstructing. It’s so good, listened to it twice!
I was raised in a religion like this. The misogyny and hypocrisy was obvious and awful. I still have some family members in that religion, and I feel bad for their children, especially the daughters.
BTW, I've only heard a little about 6B4T, but I understand one of its tenets is to reject patriarchal religions. I'd say most are actually. Whatever comes out of the patriarchy is suspect IMO.
Personally, I've been atheist (and feminist) since a young age, and am very glad to have removed myself from all that. Now, I just ignore religion. Like many things, it really only advantages men, and disadvantages women. (No offense to anyone still deconstructing.)
I was raised Mormon, and there is a looot of brainwashing especially for young women growing up in the church that their ultimate goal in life is to marry in the temple and be a mom…that’s why you see good chunk of Mormon families have like 13 kids. After I left, I got really into and still am interested in studying different religions and theologies, and I’ve found that almost every mainstream organized religion has some form of hierarchy in which men hold power over women or seen as superior over women. Many women that practice in these religions accept their given role of being inferior, or try to cope with the indoctrination by believing that misogynist tenets and principles are for their own good.
Outside of mainstream religion (and cults), there are still very few, or at least very few that we know of (due to destruction of history and culture via colonialism) that exist that don’t have patriarchy baked into its principles, and even fewer that uphold a matriarchal system of power. Many pagan religions that worshipped both male and female dieties were snuffed out by monotheistic religions that unsurprisingly worship a male god.
It makes me wonder how far back we would have to go in human history to find an era in which women were not seen as an inferior class, because religion is and continues to be such a huge factor in the oppression of women throughout the world.
This is why I have a hard time understanding why any woman would want to be in this religion. It's so devoted to keeping them at the bottom of hierarchy. While I don't want things to get complicated in regards to 4B, refusing to volunteer, labor/numbers/presence to male-based religion is a very good addition.
Mary is very much a sop used to placate and not a very good one at that.
He also disses his mom in Mark 3:31-35
Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.”
33 “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked.
34 Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”
It's very interesting how the early christians took all of the sacred symbols and attributes of the earlier goddesses who were worshipped, and gave them to Mary, who is a sanitized version of them that conveniently fits into their patriarchal religion. Even symbols from Venus, a sex-positive overtly female goddess, and Diana, fiercely asexual, pro-woman, and independent, had attributes stolen and given to the puritanical, male-appeasing Mary.
Oooh, thanks for sharing, OP! 😄 Former Christian here turned atheist, so this definitely is an overlap of my interests lol.
For all the many criticisms I have of Christianity (and patriarchal religions in general), I will give Jesus kudos in that he generally was an advocate for women per the gospels. Children too. Especially compared to the likes of misogynist Paul and his letters/writings. gives a death glare
Agreed. I came to the church but at the age of 38- I am not loyal to any particular religion but rather interested in the mystical side of things and was baptized- I don’t take the symbols literally at all and in fact I don’t see Christ as a man or male at all. I don’t think he existed in history either and I just see it as an allegorical story (which the church people will think is blasphemy but whatever). I see Christ as a living presence within me. I observe the church zombies around me doing their programmed routines but I am 4B and an antinatalist so I don’t fit the typical churchgoer. On the outside I am polite but on the undid I am disconnected from the social scripts of the church because honestly most church people just treat it as a social club not a deeply spiritual or mystical tool. In fact if these church people knew who I really was they would probably kick me out because as a mystic I am way too radical for them. But I stay undercover and simply interact with the zombies at a surface level while gaining the spiritual benefits of the mystical side of things and keeping my distance from the people. I deal with the rest of society in the same way..
Some great lines in this video:
"Homophobia is the strongest in homosocial cultures." What a line!
"Jesus is just an average woman, so why am I worshipping it only in the form of a man?"
Edit: Formatting
I was raised in a religion like this. The misogyny and hypocrisy was obvious and awful. I still have some family members in that religion, and I feel bad for their children, especially the daughters.
BTW, I've only heard a little about 6B4T, but I understand one of its tenets is to reject patriarchal religions. I'd say most are actually. Whatever comes out of the patriarchy is suspect IMO.
Personally, I've been atheist (and feminist) since a young age, and am very glad to have removed myself from all that. Now, I just ignore religion. Like many things, it really only advantages men, and disadvantages women. (No offense to anyone still deconstructing.)
I was raised Mormon, and there is a looot of brainwashing especially for young women growing up in the church that their ultimate goal in life is to marry in the temple and be a mom…that’s why you see good chunk of Mormon families have like 13 kids. After I left, I got really into and still am interested in studying different religions and theologies, and I’ve found that almost every mainstream organized religion has some form of hierarchy in which men hold power over women or seen as superior over women. Many women that practice in these religions accept their given role of being inferior, or try to cope with the indoctrination by believing that misogynist tenets and principles are for their own good.
Outside of mainstream religion (and cults), there are still very few, or at least very few that we know of (due to destruction of history and culture via colonialism) that exist that don’t have patriarchy baked into its principles, and even fewer that uphold a matriarchal system of power. Many pagan religions that worshipped both male and female dieties were snuffed out by monotheistic religions that unsurprisingly worship a male god.
It makes me wonder how far back we would have to go in human history to find an era in which women were not seen as an inferior class, because religion is and continues to be such a huge factor in the oppression of women throughout the world.
"All religions were created by men -- for men -- to control women, children and slaves."
This is why I have a hard time understanding why any woman would want to be in this religion. It's so devoted to keeping them at the bottom of hierarchy. While I don't want things to get complicated in regards to 4B, refusing to volunteer, labor/numbers/presence to male-based religion is a very good addition.
Mary is very much a sop used to placate and not a very good one at that.
He also disses his mom in Mark 3:31-35
Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. 32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.”
33 “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked.
34 Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.”
It's very interesting how the early christians took all of the sacred symbols and attributes of the earlier goddesses who were worshipped, and gave them to Mary, who is a sanitized version of them that conveniently fits into their patriarchal religion. Even symbols from Venus, a sex-positive overtly female goddess, and Diana, fiercely asexual, pro-woman, and independent, had attributes stolen and given to the puritanical, male-appeasing Mary.
Oooh, thanks for sharing, OP! 😄 Former Christian here turned atheist, so this definitely is an overlap of my interests lol.
For all the many criticisms I have of Christianity (and patriarchal religions in general), I will give Jesus kudos in that he generally was an advocate for women per the gospels. Children too. Especially compared to the likes of misogynist Paul and his letters/writings. gives a death glare
Agreed. I came to the church but at the age of 38- I am not loyal to any particular religion but rather interested in the mystical side of things and was baptized- I don’t take the symbols literally at all and in fact I don’t see Christ as a man or male at all. I don’t think he existed in history either and I just see it as an allegorical story (which the church people will think is blasphemy but whatever). I see Christ as a living presence within me. I observe the church zombies around me doing their programmed routines but I am 4B and an antinatalist so I don’t fit the typical churchgoer. On the outside I am polite but on the undid I am disconnected from the social scripts of the church because honestly most church people just treat it as a social club not a deeply spiritual or mystical tool. In fact if these church people knew who I really was they would probably kick me out because as a mystic I am way too radical for them. But I stay undercover and simply interact with the zombies at a surface level while gaining the spiritual benefits of the mystical side of things and keeping my distance from the people. I deal with the rest of society in the same way..
u/burbnbougie