Hello,
this is my first post, i’m still new to this community and the whole idea of the movement. English is not my first language, so I apologize in advance if my wording is strange or too convoluted.
To keep things brief and focus on the main point, I’ve only had one romantic relationship with a man. I’m still young (22y), and that relationship took place between the ages of 16 and 20. Even though I still identify as bisexual, that experience taught me that my idealized view of men was far from reality. Honestly, I no longer feel interested in dating men, it feels like too much effort for very little return.
However, this isn’t the main source of the problem I refer to in the title, I don't think I'll ever miss that part of life; It's just that dread that creeps on me when I think about what I've gone through because I'm a woman... I’m talking about a deeper sense of loneliness that many women seem to feel (or at least that I feel), the idea that every aspect of our lives is shaped by expectations about what we should do and enjoy, that all media is deeply rooted in misogyny, and that porn is normalized within a culture that trivializes sexual violence against women, like the absolute bazillion of rapey subreddits that exist (and I should find it normal?!).
The thing is, how do I stop myself from becoming completely cynical? How do we avoid falling into a sense of total meaninglessness?
Is there a way to come in terms with the idea that many things I enjoyed lost their appeal after I realized they were made for them and not for me? I honestly don't even enjoy the majority of movies and games now that I realized how much it appeals to ideas that harm real women everyday.
In a world like that, which spaces remain for us?
(Sorry about the wall of text, maybe I’m just depressed lol. It's the first time I find a community like that... Wanted to get it off my chest)
First and most importantly for me, curate your feed. It helps tremendously.
Second, if/when you dwell on unfairness you can’t change please recognize every one of those situations has been a situation or struggle that represents triumph for you just for surviving the unnecessary bullshit that’s thrown your way!
(Think how men celebrate wins - like, a sportsball team - that they have nothing to do with).
Third, when you do make a positive change, no matter how small, feel really, really GOOD about it. Savor it. Give yourself the gold star, the “Best Ever” behavior award! Even if it’s changing the cup you drink your tea out of, even if it’s remaining/appearing cool and logical if you’re being screamed at.
ENFORCE those behaviors, you sweet, powerful, wonderful thing!!
Last, share what happened and what helped with all your sisters here, okie? Cheering you on!
Thank you so much for taking time out of your day to write this comment!
I'll try to keep your advice in mind, but just knowing that I'm not alone and that this community exists already means so much for me... Thank you :)
Your feelings are beyond justified. It's deeply painful to recognize that you live in a world constructed by men to oppress you. You have now lost access to a veil of ignorance that shielded you, to some extent, from this excruciating awareness. And what you have gained hasn't fully manifested yet, because grief is a process that you are just beginning.
This is a real loss, though an abstract one. And when you have loss that is unaddressed, it ferments into nihilism, loss of direction, and despair. It's only through grieving that we can transform loss into something new, by alchemizing our pain into wisdom and expanding our innermost selves to accommodate this grief.
For me, somatic therapies have been the most helpful for working through grief. Grief lives in the body, and it's only through my bodily expressions of mourning that I have been able to truly access and process my pain.
But a good start would just be - stop asking yourself how not to be cynical, angry, hopeless, despairing. All these feelings are good and necessary for this process. Trust yourself to grow through this and maybe you'll be surprised.
Your comment is so well written and I feel it encapsulates pretty well what I've been going through... Thank you for your words, I think I really needed to hear that
(I'd never heard of somatic therapy before, I'll take a look into it!)
No, you should not find it normal because it is not normal. Your sense of outrage and unfairness is not only justified, it's the only healthy response felt when confronted by the mass abuse of women. I'm in my 40's and I've never become numb to it, and in one sense I'm glad for that. It means I'm still a thinking, feeling human being who cares about myself and about my fellow women.
A few things that have helped me - I surround myself with other women. Their writing, their art, their friendship and community, this subreddit filled with women, some Discord servers that are women-only. In fact I seek out women-only spaces when at all possible, and I create women-only spaces in my own life. I started a women's personal finance/financial independence meet up group in my own town. I only choose to mentor other women at work, and me and my mentees regularly meet to talk about career and education advice, I reached out to several female colleagues so we can collaborate, proof read and edit each other's work and now we meet regularly, etc. I'm a runner and that's mostly a solo hobby for me, but when I engage in running spaces online to read or chat, I only seek out women's running spaces/blogs/groups.
The lack of men in the activities I choose to do is not just 'liberating' (it very much is liberating, but that's surprisingly not my main emotion about it), it has actually helped me to achieve more. Women have higher standards about the things that matter, and they encourage rather than attack when they can see someone getting lazy (which we all do sometimes), making mistakes, or just demonstrating a place where the other person can improve. Since starting the women's finance group I've learned a ton and my finances have never been more solid. It helps that I don't have a man draining my bank account with onlyfans subscriptions, sex work addiction and secret second families, of course. But it's more than that - women are intelligent problem solvers and our shared knowledge and group ideas have actually been better than the advice I'd been getting from the largely male finance spaces online. And since starting the informal women's group at work we've actually gotten some really outstanding grants (I work in research, so it's grant funded) and have collaborated in studies that have expanded my research globally. In a shallow personal sense I love seeing the grant funding a list of women's names. We deserve the money for our work and the ability to make discoveries without a 'fake it til you make it' male taking up space or needing his hand held.
The other thing I do is make myself an ally to women I don't know (or don't know yet). All of my charity donations go to organizations that ONLY help women. I have stocked abortion pills and gotten myself on a list of people who will donate those pills to women in areas or relationships that make seeking health care dangerous or illegal. I used to volunteer at our food bank, but I now volunteer for a women's shelter in the branch of the service that helps them seek out new education, training and careers once they're out of danger. I mainly tutor, and then I drive women to interviews and to work! I love it. I know that any help I give a woman is help for her, her entire family and her community.
So when I read this: 'every aspect of our lives is shaped by expectations about what we should do and enjoy, that all media is deeply rooted in misogyny' I totally hear you, but I also know that women can change that for ourselves and a small or large group of women we interact with. We have to really dig deep to find what our own healthy expectations are for ourselves, what we really enjoy doing, what media we consume, where the best places for us are to put our effort and time. That's a lot to unpack and I'm not even close to being done with it myself. I appreciate it when women call me out on things I say or do that still reflect a male-centered expectation, because that's how we learn. It's a lot. But maybe you have the saying in your own language about old people planting trees that will shade the people who will some day sit under them? We're doing this for ourselves and then also for women who come after us. Even if we just change our own bubble, that matters. Even if our bubble contains one person, ourselves, that matters. We do matter. It takes a long time to really believe that. I think acting as if you believe it and then seeing what happens really helps!
And yeah, the front page of Reddit like so much social media is an incel convention that represents the last gasp of a slack-jawed, porn-sick, useless, failed experiment in male humanity. I sometimes read their words and root for them to keep going, keep giving each other terrible advice that alienates them more and more from women so we have all of this space to be ourselves and succeed. Create entire communities with likeminded sisters so we barely ever think to check in on men to see if they're still trying to poison everything beautiful in life, and the times we do we nod and then get back to our hobbies and passions and friends.
Thank you so much for your response. I read every word of your comment, then I cried a little and read it all again. Honestly, it's the first time I’ve felt completely understood, without any judgment about whether I’m "exaggerating" or if I'm just being dramatic...
The idea of surrounding myself with other women really resonates with me, I've been craving it for so long... Unfortunately, I’ve always been quite isolated, partly because of my social anxiety and because of some really painful past experiences with people. But I know that making the effort to connect with other women is worth it, I’ve been missing that sense of sisterhood for so so long, especially since my interactions tend to be limited to the academic world. I’m in the engineering field, and sadly, at least where I’m from, there aren’t many women in it yet and sometimes my schedule is just too busy to have the time to look for any groups around me.
Thank you for your words, I feel like I really needed a new perspective about it, sometimes it's too easy to fall into that feeling of emptiness... I have to remind myself that things still matter!
I also want to sincerely congratulate you on all the incredible work you do for the women around you! Since discovering this community, I’ve read so many posts and comments from people like you, and if I ever get the chance to accomplish even a fraction of what all of you have done, I’ll be really proud of myself :)
You are so sweet to say that, and you're already doing it. You're starting conversations, you're thinking critically about what we've been told versus what you want for yourself. At 22, that's amazing! Because at 22, you're in the crosshairs for the majority of the messaging we get as women, the pressure on you is enormous. Yet here you are really thinking about it and trying to assess what's best for you as a woman. That's lightyears ahead of anything I was thinking about at your age (I blindly accepted the messaging). Whatever your path, you're going to do wonderful things for yourself and that's everything.
Focus on yourself and your life. I barely come into contact with males so I rarely think about them.
Stay off subs that have frequent male posts. If you’re a content creator, immediately block male comments that do not add value (most).
Remember that we are the true gods—the true creators of womankind. We are the reason womankind exists. Without us, there would be no huwomen.
>The thing is, how do I stop myself from becoming completely cynical? How do we avoid falling into a sense of total meaninglessness?
I'm still pretty cynical, but what helps me from falling into despair is finding women-centric groups and meetups irl with other like-minded women to engage with, throwing myself into my hobbies, and setting goals for myself that I can look forward to (such as with work, finances, and hopefully moving to a better place in the coming years).
Likewise, I feel like you're describing a healthy, rational awareness of misogyny that a lot of women don't currently have, or only develop later in life after years of male-centered trauma. I don't think it's anything to be ashamed of, and that cynicism and anger can be protective and used as fuel for positive engagement with other women (and with ourselves).
I feel this so much, and have my own wall of text about the subject lol. I often feel overwhelmed and sad when I think about how the world works. The women around me, and hundreds of years after me, will continue to suffer because of men, (unless we all randomly decide to go 4b as a mass group and leave them all behind, or completely take down the system ourselves without any help.)
I am hoping this is just a temporary state, and that my anger and sadness will be more manageable at some point. I want to know how to keep myself aware of women's rights issues without completely destroying my mental health in the process. Lol.
Lately, I have been researching and finding charities and volunteer experiences that are made up of women volunteers and staff, that only help women. I often meet others there that feel the same as me, and have recommendations on what content actually feels women-centered, and what activities we can do together where males won't be present, etc. This has helped a bit. I live a women-centered life but men, and their strange views and desires, are still pushed onto me, and all of us.
Even as a 4b woman who stopped dating, got rid of all my male friends, and no longer does anything for the men in my family whatsoever, I still feel suffocated. Every single man is affected by the patriarchy and is entitled in some manner that is either outwardly obvious or becomes obvious once you know them a little, no matter their sexual orientation, religion, upbringing, or background. Most 4b women can't avoid all men, (work, etc.) I genuinely hate even having to be around them, because I despise having to pretend like it's all good that they are okay with women's oppression, as a collective. There has been no true effort by men, ever in history, to help us or take down this system, or even create their own women's rights groups. They instead join our groups to talk over us, learn talking points solely to attract women, and pretend like they are negatively affected by this system. Knowing that, why should I even be friendly with them? I don't want to hurt them, I just don't want to know them or want them around me. But the workforce and world forces it onto us.
Then you start to also notice that most media is built for them, or with their weird desires and viewpoints in mind, even feminist content. And much of the "empowering" content just tries to convince us that our oppression could be a good thing if we have the illusion of choice about it all, and the men around us say feminist buzzwords, while acting exactly the same as every other man. I mean, men even try to influence and get involved in lesbian spaces. 🙄
lt's also painful to know we aren't getting out of the patriarchy anytime soon. It's hard not to be extremely angry and disturbed that one group has actively kept the system in place for thousands of years, or at their very best, have been checked out and content with our oppression, besides uselessly proclaiming positivity statements that mean nothing and do nothing for women, (male progressives.) Male progressives be like: "oh that sucks for the women in afghanistan. That's really sad. 🥺 I'm happy that insert where they live treats women better. Anyway- scrolls past constant violence towards women with no emotion so he can turn on degrading, violent porn to masturbate to, while he continues to be a terrible person, and his feminist girlfriend comes on reddit to tell other women she found a unicorn."
It's hard not to be cynical at this point in my life because I know nothing is changing, and it's set up to be that way. The only thing 4b does is limit men's access to me specifically, and it doesn't limit it completely. I still live in a patriarchy that harms me.
Me and all the women at my place of work still get paid less than every man there, even though we have degrees, they work less hours, just joined the field, and do the easier jobs. Feminist women's golden retriever husbands and sons still benefit in their relationships more than the women ever will. It's not an equal relationship. It's a laugh, and statistically, it's a lie, and most women are simply conditioned to let things slide, because "he doesn't beat me. It works for us!" And of course these male allies are happily engaging in the systems that created the patriarchy in the first place. Just because they do it with a softer tone and with a feminist girlfriend or mother in tow doesn't mean anything to me. They are doing nothing. Thanks for continuing to uphold the patriarchy, feminist men.
I feel this so so much because the last thing I want is to live an alienated life, disconnected from women’s issues, but sometimes it feels like I just can’t keep going. Living with anxiety, depression, and autism is already exhausting, and I’ve had past attempts already.
At times it all becomes so overwhelming. I try to remind myself that I deserve a better life, for me and for my small family, and that I should strive to make life a bit better for every woman in this world. Still, there are moments when I simply break down and just cry alone :(
And sadly, It will likely never happen. The current system works in their favor, and they hold on a sense of entitlement and superiority it reinforces.
All I wish for, what should be the bare minimum, is the right to exist and to be ourselves without being constantly belittled, harassed, violated, sexualized, and basically dehumanized simply because we were born in women’s bodies.
Despite everything they do, I have made countless conscious efforts to love the men in my life, my dad, friends... But they never give this love back. I know so many women endure far worse than I ever have, that there are so many other more important issues, but I just wish we lived in a world where men were worthy of that love.
The only "man" for whom I still hold a huge amount of love is my brother, but he is still just a child, and I'm so scared about what the world may shape him into as he grows older :(
It's not losing hope, it's being realistic and getting rid of rose coloured glasses
Start awarding yourself for every win. No matter how small.
Get in hobbies that you enjoy. Do arts and crafts, listen to female artists that are feminists, read from feminists, focus on your relationships with women, block relationship "coaches", religious preachers (yeah even progressive ones), and those tarot readers that dont reflect 4B in their readings on social media. What you have to do is replace the things you paid attention to. Go for the girl power genre for shows, especially the ones where there is no romance.