Just trying to cancel the sub for a character I no longer have access to... That was the date of the last payment, tried next payment and all formats I can think of... Won't let me talk to a person without that info...
The chatbots dont use AI at all if they cant handle a date format which tells me either its just hardcoded instruction set or they got scammed by 3rd party provider
To be devils advocate here: a large studio and legitimate business will always be substantially slower at adopting new technology. Not just because of stubborn executives and scale, they must also make a business partnership for the compute necessary to operate a public facing AI.
Bot writers on the other hand just spend 5 minutes writing a script that connects to the API of whatever service they are using and they are done.
Businesses also have the choice to build a system tha takes calls to an API, most AI systems people are touting as 'their own AI' aren't, they've just built something to call with their own controls and system prompts. And this isn't a core game system so it doesn't need near perfect uptime that dependency on a third party would require. It is async, on demand request management, not a load that needs a bespoke system.
I wasn't making a claim that jagex has to set up their own mini data center for the bot. Just the fact that public facing AI for a business does require some form of negotiation with a provider which takes time and money. Jagex couldn't just hook up the bot to their chatgpt plus subscription and be good to go like a bot dev is.
As an American, the US date format is extremely inferior. I cannot think of a single time it provides a benefit over the alternative, but I can think of many downsides, like trying to organize documents by title when their titles begin with dates.
Plenty of countries also use mm/dd. It makes sense to me not only because its how we say it but also because the larger denominations are written on the left when writing numbers.
Like 1,234 the "1" represents the largest amount and they get smaller from left to right.
I don't know. When I'm telling someone the date the year is the least important part. I feel having the Month and Day first shows the important info first.
What? I canât think of a single time when that format provides an advantage either. Itâs just a fucking date lol. And how the hell does starting with a year solve your problem of organizing documents by title with dates?? Itâs still a date lmao.
Organizing by title using US date codes puts them out of order
1.1.2020
1.5.2021
1.10.2020
Organizing by title using the date code of everywhere else in the world puts them in the correct order
2020.1.1
2020.1.10
2021.1.1
That is an advantage over a system which doesnât put those documents into order. Itâs so simple I donât expect anyone would need it spelled out, little fella.
At no point should your documents from different years be organized together in the same directory, you always have the years separated from each other. If you have files across multiple years stored in the same place than you have poor record keeping and as a business you're not adhering to legal requirements for record keeping of documents that must be kept for specific amounts of time that must be stored by year with each year separated from one another.
Replace âdocumentâ with âfolderâ and it has the same effect, so youâre just looking for something irrelevant to nitpick
Iâm not sure what country youâre in, but in the US businesses are not legally required to separate every single document they produce by year, the vast majority of documents are not subject to any specific requirements. Again, ridiculous thing to even try and nitpick
My family has run an electrical contractor business for 20 years now, we're required to retain specific documents for several years and they're required to be separated by fiscal year. This is in the US btw.
It's not much of a "benefit" but it's just simpler for Americans to read and process because we are used to saying "November the 5th" instead of "5th November" like everyone else
Dont worry guys, AI is the answer, just keep letting it ruin your local natural resources and spiking your energy bills, as you can see it works perfectly and makes the billionaires even more money so its great!
Oh, I'm pissed. I'm just not naive enough to think being pissed is gonna stop the most powerful people on the planet from doing whatever it takes to gain even more power.
Communities who are angry end up driving data centers away and toward cities with more of a "oh what's the point, they're gonna do it anyway" thinking around them. I live in one of those cities and we're getting all the shit the angry towns around us have avoided. Don't discount the power of a group of pissed of people.
AI is fine for what itâs good at, making images and videos. The problem is the people (mostly tech oligarchs and investors) who insist that it will be able to replace human labor and creativity. It cannot. It doesnât think reason or use logic. Itâs not even close to being able to adequately replace anyone. Itâs a tool with limitations.
But weâre still fucked because what it really is is an excuse for capitalists to lay off hundreds of thousands of if not millions of workers and distribute their work among the remaining work force so they can pocket even more of the economic pie for themselves.
Automation has been replacing manual workers since the industrial revolution, but god forbid it take any of the "sit in front of computer all day" white collar jobs. Now it's a problem.
Jagex's customer support AI implementation is rubbish though, and should continue to be criticized.
tbh I don't have enough exposure to AI customer service to have a good sample size to judge. But I suspect you're probably right that on balance it is not good right now.
I'm not sure this actually represents a departure from the norm though. A lot of companies already used dumb-AI assistants (those chatbot ones that just give you links based on the keywords in your question or the voice recognition ones that just read you back from a set of pre-recorded messages).
So I guess the question is, for the companies now using modern neural-net type AIs, what would they be doing as an alternative? If it's replacing human customer service then that's worse. But if it's replacing the dumb AI or no-customer-service-at-all then it's at least a modest improvement.
The typical redditor does not think about any of this. They just hate all AI brainlessly.
I have not had a single time when my AI chat robot did not require me escalating to an actual human being. This is across all businesses and government agencies. They're useless
I wonder if they're all getting their AI assistants through the same company or companies. It's weird that none of them have managed to make a good one otherwise, considering how effective even just the consumer facing AIs like clause and chatgpt are now.
Maybe they're just too inflexible right now to adapt to the individual companies.
An underlying issue is likely also that no company is willing to let the AI have any real decision making power (giving refunds, reversing bans, etc). So no matter how much the software improves this will always make them less useful than a human representative.
I think your last paragraph really nails the crux of the issue. Without the discretion to actually come to any resolutions (i.e. refunds, reversals, etc.) Its just a traffic jam preventing me from getting my actual resolutions from a human being.
We just gotta wait until some company finally takes the plunge and eats the inevitable embarassing "AI assistant refunds customer $10000 on $10 purchase" or "customer submits mild complaint and AI assistant deletes their account" headlines. I mean waymo managed to get self driving taxis working, which seems much higher risk, so I think it can happen.
Okay? And I don't want freshwater lakes to keep drying up, pollutants injected into watersheds, and my electricity bill to increase 313% like it currently is just for something that "will work *eventually*" to get free reign over every aspect of my life. If it's not working now, STOP USING MY FUCKING RESOURCES AND FORCING IT INTO EVERY ASPECT OF MY LIFE. Develop it on your OWN time and resources like a real technology and release when ready.
Stop sucking AI dick, it's a terrible technology and it's ruining not only natural resources but our fucking brains. "It makes Googling easier" like using a search engine was too difficult in the first place. Stop being an apologist.
What? I dislike AI but "freshwater lakes to keep drying up, pollutants injected into watersheds" is completely false. You do understand that it is more expensive to not have a closed-loop cooling system right? thousands of datacenters before AI took off and we still have lakes, and what are these magical pollutants? it's racks upon racks of servers that take electricity and turn it into heat and slop.
The "AI sucks up all the water" thing is bullshit. You can't have your reasons to hate AI but using that one makes you look like a bandwagoner spouting talking points you don't understand.
This smacks of the same energy as the people who resisted factories, and everything that came with the industrial revolution. Horses are fine, why do we need cars?
This is going to do several things that are genuinely good that don't directly relate to AI.
- In many places in the US, solar and wind are already cheaper than coal/LNG and the cold economics of capitalism will lean into those because its more profitable. Nuclear is also being reinvigorated because of this, which is a huge win for green energy and has been maligned for no reason (given modern reactor designs) for so many years.
- The energy costs from these are temporary. It's simple elastic supply and demand. Suddenly, there's a lot more profit to be made per KW/h, which means there will be more people building power plants or decentralized power generation. Yes, this does mean that there will likely be more coal/LNG/fossil fuel plants, but as I said above, the scales are largely tipped towards green in the US, even with all the subsidies oil and gas gets.
- Before I became a software developer, I worked on designing solar systems for homeowners. One thing that this rise in electricity price means that all those panels that have fallen to astronomically low prices suddenly are a LOT more valuable for any homeowner that wants to install them. ~10-15 years ago, you could make the cost of solar back in the tristate area within 5-7 years assuming good conditions. Solar is pennies compared to what the cost was back then. Invest in solar. It's quite literally a money printer in this economy.
- It will also create pressure on physical computing, which means more funding for EE and other STEM Masters/PhD programs, funding both research and investment into improving the physical hardware.
- There *are* real benefits of LLMs, they're just also being also hyped by the equivalent of crypto bros. This will be a tangible change in the quality of life for people who cannot afford formal education, for example, allowing them to teach themselves topics they would otherwise have no access to, given the free, open models are relatively close behind the paid, closed models. You need to look at the long term here.
There was an AI bubble in the 70s/80s. This is gonna be just like that. LLMs are basically a magic trick. They're pretty stupid after you work with them for a while
I work with them every day as an software engineer with 10 YOE in the field, working multi billion dollar company. This is tangibly different. I think their widespread applicability is overhyped, but there is a permanent place for them in SWE and really anything text based.
I'm a junior dev, but I do find them helpful for explaining concepts I don't get from the docs or surfacing methods I didn't know existed.Â
I'm wondering what you use them for? Because for me it's mostly like a better encyclopedia. I'm wondering for experience devs what you use it for. Is it for writing boilerplate you'd rather not waste time with?Â
Us old folks need an explainer from time to time, so I use it for that too.
I also give it any ticket it has a low chance of messing up, and just review the PR it produces. Most of my workday pre-AI was writing code, and reading code critically is a good skill to have, especially if you work in a large team like I do. It's helped with that.
What I don't use it for is engineering decisions. I haven't found a model that's close to what I'd consider quality for that, so I usually will provide a small roadmap for the tickets I hand off. "Build it by doing A, B and C" type stuff.
I also routinely use it for side projects to teach myself new stacks or just some tool I need for my actual life, and that's given me the most insight into the jumps in capability, which informs my sense of what I should be giving it.
In those projects, I will often give it a section of the project to work on. Something like 'The ABC feature has a bug that does this_very_specific_thing, please investigate XYZ' while I work on some other aspect. If it fixes the problem in a way that isn't offensive, yay, I just got a free feature or fix. If I review it and it either doesn't work or works badly, no skin off my back. I also do a lot with 3d (Three.js atm) and performance is a legitimate concern, so I will often have it go write a test that can verifiably benchmark it's changes, then task it with improving performance. It works extremely well when it can get some feedback. I just fixed something yesterday that went from a 9s load time on a 3d techo demo down to <200ms.
I've shifted more towards an architect and reviewer, though I still write daily. It's just I'm sharing the load now.
If I have to put it succinctly, it's allowed me to multithread my work.
i gave them a whole ass essay in the support questionaire they send out about how much their AI bot fucking sucks balls. that probably wont change anything
They've literally done this before. Jacmob went to RuneFest and presented a working bot a very short time after Jagex announced "Cluster Flutterer", which was supposed to be the "end of bots".
Jacmob, who created RSBuddy (which then went on to become a game client called OSBuddy), was hired and the person behind the current Bot Watch system still used in RS3 IIRC. He left a few years later.
When Mod Jacmob was around was when Runescape was at its best dealing with bots.
He was poached, along with several other Jagex employees, by Mod MMG (the former Jagex CEO) and became a co-founder of PlayFusion. In 2016 Jacmob created a studio to make Deceit, then in 2020 founded another company called World Makers that is currently developing Deceit 2 and another game called MVX: London.
I have zero evidence to back this up and have looked into it no times so its literally just a conspiracy theory. But the running theory in my head is jagex suddenly decided to âcareâ about customer support after ignoring it all these years because the conglomerate that owns them bought an ai chatbot company and wants to push as many of their own companies as possible to use them as their ai service bot to drum up more valuation in a competitive emerging industry by saying âhey! Look at all these companies that use this ai! Ignore the fact that its broken as fuck and that theyre our own companies.â Jagex never usually cares because the higher ups know that customer service in osrs does very little to move the needle when it comes to profit. So why spend money on it for no increase in value when you plan to sell the company to the next private equity in a few years? I doubt they had a sudden change of heart. I find it more likely they saw a problem we complain about and decided its a good way to promote their new product by saying its what we wantedÂ
It's not, ai chat bots are just the new version of hiding the phone line number behind a maze of website links. Because humans are expensive, these ai chat bots are just a glorified form in a chat box to mimic a normal customer service support chain.
Haven't used jagex support bot myself but from the pictures it seems to have a Gemini icon so it's not something so it's not a product jagex can sell.
Thanks for inspiring me to look into this friend. The private equity that currently owns Jagex, CVC, doesn't seem to own any pure-AI plays, at least from perusing through their portfolio page. There are, however, quite a large number of European IT service companies, many of them B2B-focused, so your theory still holds weight. Would need to go play with that support bot to try and find where it came from to go deeper down this rabbit hole.
The one I was a little surprised to find was Therme, a spa company that has gotten some colossal kickbacks from the Ontario government, including a 99-year lease of public land to build a spa where nobody wants one and the cars get a view of the lakefront from the 8-storey parking garage.
Oh that bot absolutely needs to go. It's actually infuriating to work with. Just let me send a ticket in and get a reply a week later. That would be infinitely better.
I'm an awful person for laughing at the screenshot.
I hope a JMod sees this but it may be worth posting again on Monday if none do, or if the dumbass bot doesn't somehow correct itself. I don't think they're around much on weekends, if at all.
The jagex chat bot sucks massively, I was using it to try and recover an old account around 6 months ago. Before email accounts and it was guiding me through the process "no problem let me take some details" and it went through the questions and crashed twice.
as someone who also used the chat support bot, it was fine except for the date question, it had to ask me like 2-3 times to put it in the exact same before it recognized it.
The bot tried to tell me that support is unable to transfer membership to a different account. I told the bot there is literally a page on the website explaining how to open a ticket to do that, and it tried to tell me that the website is wrong lmfao
It's working for me, I'm not sure what went wrong for you. Maybe you were manually typing answers instead of clicking the options provided?
If all else fails, you can skip the AI and open a ticket the old way. You may need to choose I don't recognise a charge on my bank statement if you don't have access to your account. I recommend you specify in your ticket that you've just lost access to the account, though.
edit: In case you're curious, the options I chose with the chat bot were:
"Cancel Subscription" (manually typed) -> Yes -> Jagex -> Credit or Debit -> No -> Answer prompts from the screenshot
This exact interaction with the support bot claiming my date format was wrong happened to me months ago and was actually the catalyst for me quitting the game (the support ticket experience somehow got worse from there). Fortunately there are enough other game companies out there that respect me as a customer to keep me entertained indefinitely. My IGN was Rianzo on the slim chance anyone at Jagex is interested enough to fact check me
"umm(pause), i get what you're saying, but it's out of my knowledge. let's change the topic, shall we(yes or yes)? anyway, the roses are red and the violets are blue. are there any other topics that i could help you with, such as cooking shrimps or something like that, sir?"
Why would we even need that date to cancel a subscription. Thatâs just predatory BS, if I want to cancel something Iâm being charged for and you do this, Iâm just going to call the company and renew my card at that point I guess
I was wondering that too, the question mark is so out of place. Is it a bot? Some Indian dude? A bot made by some Indian company? Is the question mark an important part of the date format, like does OP need to type â2024-12-30?â
Wtf is this date format to begin with? It's literally in reverse, maybe that's why it's confused. Did you try DD/MM/YY like a normal person? Or even MM/DD/YY is more acceptable.
Yes it is fucking is.
No I'm doesn't
Bots in game are using advanced Ai before the Jagex support bot lol
Yeah, but its not cost effective
The chatbots dont use AI at all if they cant handle a date format which tells me either its just hardcoded instruction set or they got scammed by 3rd party provider
To be devils advocate here: a large studio and legitimate business will always be substantially slower at adopting new technology. Not just because of stubborn executives and scale, they must also make a business partnership for the compute necessary to operate a public facing AI.
Bot writers on the other hand just spend 5 minutes writing a script that connects to the API of whatever service they are using and they are done.
You say this then their business partnered, publicly facing AI can't read a date format that it itself requested.
Businesses also have the choice to build a system tha takes calls to an API, most AI systems people are touting as 'their own AI' aren't, they've just built something to call with their own controls and system prompts. And this isn't a core game system so it doesn't need near perfect uptime that dependency on a third party would require. It is async, on demand request management, not a load that needs a bespoke system.
I wasn't making a claim that jagex has to set up their own mini data center for the bot. Just the fact that public facing AI for a business does require some form of negotiation with a provider which takes time and money. Jagex couldn't just hook up the bot to their chatgpt plus subscription and be good to go like a bot dev is.
Then don't implement it.. no excuse for this.
when I give Jagex my money for shit service and a redditor comes in to defend them because the corporate world is actually really hard ):
to be devil's advocate, everything is bad for a reason and you should just accept it because reasons. thanks for the money suckers
Did you put your numbers in caps like it suggests in the format?
The bot didn't ask a question so the question mark must be part of the date format
Tried that too, didn't work.
Try the American date format (shudder).
First thing I tried after the "wrong" format. đ
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As an American, the US date format is extremely inferior. I cannot think of a single time it provides a benefit over the alternative, but I can think of many downsides, like trying to organize documents by title when their titles begin with dates.
Day/month/year makes perfect sense (smallest measure of time/medium measure of time/longest measure of time) on a year scale.
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Huh you literally put the year at the end? I dont get that at all.
What
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olympic level mental gymnastics
The benefit for Americans is because thatâs how they say the date out loud. Makes sense for them.
Yeah anyway I'm looking forward to the fourth of July..
Yeah thatâs the one exception out of 365. Not really a gotcha
See you on Mayo de Cinco then!
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Thatâs the name of the holiday, not how we normally say dates.
And then we say stuff like 10 dollars as $-then-10
So does every single country that uses the $ (except French Canada for some reason)
America: we're gonna be the only country to use a different date format so it matches natural speech
America: we'll ignore this concept for formatting currency
Plenty of countries also use mm/dd. It makes sense to me not only because its how we say it but also because the larger denominations are written on the left when writing numbers.
Like 1,234 the "1" represents the largest amount and they get smaller from left to right.
Whats with the america hate boner anyway?
To be fair so do the Brits lol
Well yeah but Americans insist on being different because it's "convenient"- but only for the date format. Cant be consistent with other changes
I don't know. When I'm telling someone the date the year is the least important part. I feel having the Month and Day first shows the important info first.
I mean generally its not yyyy-mm-dd here its dd-mm-yyyy. yyyy-mm-dd is the global default when it comes to data and computing though
What? I canât think of a single time when that format provides an advantage either. Itâs just a fucking date lol. And how the hell does starting with a year solve your problem of organizing documents by title with dates?? Itâs still a date lmao.
đ¤Śââď¸
Go ahead and explain it fella.
If I have 3 dates
January 1, 2020
January 10, 2020
January 5, 2021
Organizing by title using US date codes puts them out of order
1.1.2020
1.5.2021
1.10.2020
Organizing by title using the date code of everywhere else in the world puts them in the correct order
2020.1.1
2020.1.10
2021.1.1
That is an advantage over a system which doesnât put those documents into order. Itâs so simple I donât expect anyone would need it spelled out, little fella.
Or you could, ya know, organize them?
Dont facepalm him when he is right and you are wrong
đ¤Śââď¸
Hope this helps!
Its formatted as its read aloud, it makes a lot of sense if you think about it for 2 seconds you fucking DONUT
I don't think this is very American, comrade.
At no point should your documents from different years be organized together in the same directory, you always have the years separated from each other. If you have files across multiple years stored in the same place than you have poor record keeping and as a business you're not adhering to legal requirements for record keeping of documents that must be kept for specific amounts of time that must be stored by year with each year separated from one another.
Replace âdocumentâ with âfolderâ and it has the same effect, so youâre just looking for something irrelevant to nitpick
Iâm not sure what country youâre in, but in the US businesses are not legally required to separate every single document they produce by year, the vast majority of documents are not subject to any specific requirements. Again, ridiculous thing to even try and nitpick
My family has run an electrical contractor business for 20 years now, we're required to retain specific documents for several years and they're required to be separated by fiscal year. This is in the US btw.
It's not much of a "benefit" but it's just simpler for Americans to read and process because we are used to saying "November the 5th" instead of "5th November" like everyone else
Nobody says that. It would be âNovember 5thâ
Ever heard of the 4th of July?
Yep. Havenât heard of âJuly the 4thâ though
I hear "What are you doing for July 4th?" more often than I hear "What are you doing for the 4th of July?"
The 1 day we say it differently lmao. I have a bunch of online friends and they write the date differently, but they all say it the same as Americans.
Funny you mention that specific example, considering "remember, remember..."
No, otherwise I would have said to try again.
Sorry I can't hear you over all of these screeching bald eagles and guns going off
Shouldn't you be hiding under a desk or something then?
I don't leave home without my bulletproof vest and ballistic helmet
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Ooga booga.
Desperation is real
"it's fucking is"
Yeah I was pissed off typing on my phone đ
Dont worry guys, AI is the answer, just keep letting it ruin your local natural resources and spiking your energy bills, as you can see it works perfectly and makes the billionaires even more money so its great!
This is by far the worst agentic AI I've interacted with. Also, AI is here to stay unfortunately.
Why do you think this is agentic at all?
Guess I'm trying to give Jagex the benefit of the doubt, probably shouldn't though đ
I wouldn't be so sure, not in it's current form.
That's the spirit! Don't even get pissed! Just give up!
Oh, I'm pissed. I'm just not naive enough to think being pissed is gonna stop the most powerful people on the planet from doing whatever it takes to gain even more power.
Communities who are angry end up driving data centers away and toward cities with more of a "oh what's the point, they're gonna do it anyway" thinking around them. I live in one of those cities and we're getting all the shit the angry towns around us have avoided. Don't discount the power of a group of pissed of people.
You say that like the average person has the power to reverse this. I know we all play an MMORPG but you are living in a fantasy world.
Thats the spirit! Be a condescending twat on reddit to anyone who feels discougaged! That'll rile people up and get them to fight for your side!
redditors are so funny with the AI crying
I swear you guys would be the boomers in the 90s complaining about people wasting time on that new internet nonsense
AI is fine for what itâs good at, making images and videos. The problem is the people (mostly tech oligarchs and investors) who insist that it will be able to replace human labor and creativity. It cannot. It doesnât think reason or use logic. Itâs not even close to being able to adequately replace anyone. Itâs a tool with limitations.
But weâre still fucked because what it really is is an excuse for capitalists to lay off hundreds of thousands of if not millions of workers and distribute their work among the remaining work force so they can pocket even more of the economic pie for themselves.
Automation has been replacing manual workers since the industrial revolution, but god forbid it take any of the "sit in front of computer all day" white collar jobs. Now it's a problem.
Jagex's customer support AI implementation is rubbish though, and should continue to be criticized.
Name a single person who's done it well. That's why it's a problem, because it universally fucking sucks at doing what it's supposed to do.
tbh I don't have enough exposure to AI customer service to have a good sample size to judge. But I suspect you're probably right that on balance it is not good right now.
I'm not sure this actually represents a departure from the norm though. A lot of companies already used dumb-AI assistants (those chatbot ones that just give you links based on the keywords in your question or the voice recognition ones that just read you back from a set of pre-recorded messages).
So I guess the question is, for the companies now using modern neural-net type AIs, what would they be doing as an alternative? If it's replacing human customer service then that's worse. But if it's replacing the dumb AI or no-customer-service-at-all then it's at least a modest improvement.
The typical redditor does not think about any of this. They just hate all AI brainlessly.
I have not had a single time when my AI chat robot did not require me escalating to an actual human being. This is across all businesses and government agencies. They're useless
I wonder if they're all getting their AI assistants through the same company or companies. It's weird that none of them have managed to make a good one otherwise, considering how effective even just the consumer facing AIs like clause and chatgpt are now.
Maybe they're just too inflexible right now to adapt to the individual companies.
An underlying issue is likely also that no company is willing to let the AI have any real decision making power (giving refunds, reversing bans, etc). So no matter how much the software improves this will always make them less useful than a human representative.
I think your last paragraph really nails the crux of the issue. Without the discretion to actually come to any resolutions (i.e. refunds, reversals, etc.) Its just a traffic jam preventing me from getting my actual resolutions from a human being.
We just gotta wait until some company finally takes the plunge and eats the inevitable embarassing "AI assistant refunds customer $10000 on $10 purchase" or "customer submits mild complaint and AI assistant deletes their account" headlines. I mean waymo managed to get self driving taxis working, which seems much higher risk, so I think it can happen.
"tbh I don't have enough exposure to AI customer service to have a good sample size to judge"
In that case, what makes you different from the "typical redditor that does not think about any of this" but comments anyways?
The thinking about it part
You can hate AI and the consequences of its use, but the fact that it doesnât work right now doesnât mean it wonât eventually.
Edit: Nowhere in my comment am I âsucking AIs dickâ or being an âAI apologist.â
Iâm pointing out that the logic behind âwe shouldnât do x now because itâs currently not workingâ is a stupid mentality
Okay? And I don't want freshwater lakes to keep drying up, pollutants injected into watersheds, and my electricity bill to increase 313% like it currently is just for something that "will work *eventually*" to get free reign over every aspect of my life. If it's not working now, STOP USING MY FUCKING RESOURCES AND FORCING IT INTO EVERY ASPECT OF MY LIFE. Develop it on your OWN time and resources like a real technology and release when ready.
Stop sucking AI dick, it's a terrible technology and it's ruining not only natural resources but our fucking brains. "It makes Googling easier" like using a search engine was too difficult in the first place. Stop being an apologist.
What? I dislike AI but "freshwater lakes to keep drying up, pollutants injected into watersheds" is completely false. You do understand that it is more expensive to not have a closed-loop cooling system right? thousands of datacenters before AI took off and we still have lakes, and what are these magical pollutants? it's racks upon racks of servers that take electricity and turn it into heat and slop.
The "AI sucks up all the water" thing is bullshit. You can't have your reasons to hate AI but using that one makes you look like a bandwagoner spouting talking points you don't understand.
This smacks of the same energy as the people who resisted factories, and everything that came with the industrial revolution. Horses are fine, why do we need cars?
This is going to do several things that are genuinely good that don't directly relate to AI.
- In many places in the US, solar and wind are already cheaper than coal/LNG and the cold economics of capitalism will lean into those because its more profitable. Nuclear is also being reinvigorated because of this, which is a huge win for green energy and has been maligned for no reason (given modern reactor designs) for so many years.
- The energy costs from these are temporary. It's simple elastic supply and demand. Suddenly, there's a lot more profit to be made per KW/h, which means there will be more people building power plants or decentralized power generation. Yes, this does mean that there will likely be more coal/LNG/fossil fuel plants, but as I said above, the scales are largely tipped towards green in the US, even with all the subsidies oil and gas gets.
- Before I became a software developer, I worked on designing solar systems for homeowners. One thing that this rise in electricity price means that all those panels that have fallen to astronomically low prices suddenly are a LOT more valuable for any homeowner that wants to install them. ~10-15 years ago, you could make the cost of solar back in the tristate area within 5-7 years assuming good conditions. Solar is pennies compared to what the cost was back then. Invest in solar. It's quite literally a money printer in this economy.
- It will also create pressure on physical computing, which means more funding for EE and other STEM Masters/PhD programs, funding both research and investment into improving the physical hardware.
- There *are* real benefits of LLMs, they're just also being also hyped by the equivalent of crypto bros. This will be a tangible change in the quality of life for people who cannot afford formal education, for example, allowing them to teach themselves topics they would otherwise have no access to, given the free, open models are relatively close behind the paid, closed models. You need to look at the long term here.
There was an AI bubble in the 70s/80s. This is gonna be just like that. LLMs are basically a magic trick. They're pretty stupid after you work with them for a while
I work with them every day as an software engineer with 10 YOE in the field, working multi billion dollar company. This is tangibly different. I think their widespread applicability is overhyped, but there is a permanent place for them in SWE and really anything text based.
I'm a junior dev, but I do find them helpful for explaining concepts I don't get from the docs or surfacing methods I didn't know existed.Â
I'm wondering what you use them for? Because for me it's mostly like a better encyclopedia. I'm wondering for experience devs what you use it for. Is it for writing boilerplate you'd rather not waste time with?Â
Us old folks need an explainer from time to time, so I use it for that too.
I also give it any ticket it has a low chance of messing up, and just review the PR it produces. Most of my workday pre-AI was writing code, and reading code critically is a good skill to have, especially if you work in a large team like I do. It's helped with that.
What I don't use it for is engineering decisions. I haven't found a model that's close to what I'd consider quality for that, so I usually will provide a small roadmap for the tickets I hand off. "Build it by doing A, B and C" type stuff.
I also routinely use it for side projects to teach myself new stacks or just some tool I need for my actual life, and that's given me the most insight into the jumps in capability, which informs my sense of what I should be giving it.
In those projects, I will often give it a section of the project to work on. Something like 'The ABC feature has a bug that does this_very_specific_thing, please investigate XYZ' while I work on some other aspect. If it fixes the problem in a way that isn't offensive, yay, I just got a free feature or fix. If I review it and it either doesn't work or works badly, no skin off my back. I also do a lot with 3d (Three.js atm) and performance is a legitimate concern, so I will often have it go write a test that can verifiably benchmark it's changes, then task it with improving performance. It works extremely well when it can get some feedback. I just fixed something yesterday that went from a 9s load time on a 3d techo demo down to <200ms.
I've shifted more towards an architect and reviewer, though I still write daily. It's just I'm sharing the load now.
If I have to put it succinctly, it's allowed me to multithread my work.
Parable of the Automobile! The same argument NAMBLA uses!
i gave them a whole ass essay in the support questionaire they send out about how much their AI bot fucking sucks balls. that probably wont change anything
Pretending clankers are anything more than a glorified FAQ page because "AI Good" is so worth 900$ sticks of RAM and being thirsty.
You used substraction instead of dashes, obviously
Jagex should hire the gold farmer bot creators to work for them. Clearly the bots gold farmers use are better than what Jagex uses.
They've literally done this before. Jacmob went to RuneFest and presented a working bot a very short time after Jagex announced "Cluster Flutterer", which was supposed to be the "end of bots".
Jacmob, who created RSBuddy (which then went on to become a game client called OSBuddy), was hired and the person behind the current Bot Watch system still used in RS3 IIRC. He left a few years later.
When Mod Jacmob was around was when Runescape was at its best dealing with bots.
He was poached, along with several other Jagex employees, by Mod MMG (the former Jagex CEO) and became a co-founder of PlayFusion. In 2016 Jacmob created a studio to make Deceit, then in 2020 founded another company called World Makers that is currently developing Deceit 2 and another game called MVX: London.
You think bot creators will be tempted by the amazing salaries offered at Jagex?
Maybe not. But it looks better on a CV when theyâre starting to think long-term
Maybe. That Lithuanian gold farmer who caught tax evasion changes for the ~500k he raked in probably doesn't have to think too long term
Gotta use capital numbers dude
I've never had a good interaction with a support bot. It's just like an extra 5 steps to a real person.
That bot is straight up insulting
Bro cussing at a robot đ¤
Surprisingly being aggressive towards AI agents tends to give you access to an actual human from my experience
Which tend to also be the only ones who can actually offer help
They should hire the people who make bots for in-game, theyâre so good apparently even JaGeX canât tell theyâre not human
You know the AI suck when they can't even figure out the correct format
I have zero evidence to back this up and have looked into it no times so its literally just a conspiracy theory. But the running theory in my head is jagex suddenly decided to âcareâ about customer support after ignoring it all these years because the conglomerate that owns them bought an ai chatbot company and wants to push as many of their own companies as possible to use them as their ai service bot to drum up more valuation in a competitive emerging industry by saying âhey! Look at all these companies that use this ai! Ignore the fact that its broken as fuck and that theyre our own companies.â Jagex never usually cares because the higher ups know that customer service in osrs does very little to move the needle when it comes to profit. So why spend money on it for no increase in value when you plan to sell the company to the next private equity in a few years? I doubt they had a sudden change of heart. I find it more likely they saw a problem we complain about and decided its a good way to promote their new product by saying its what we wantedÂ
It's not, ai chat bots are just the new version of hiding the phone line number behind a maze of website links. Because humans are expensive, these ai chat bots are just a glorified form in a chat box to mimic a normal customer service support chain.
Haven't used jagex support bot myself but from the pictures it seems to have a Gemini icon so it's not something so it's not a product jagex can sell.
Thanks for inspiring me to look into this friend. The private equity that currently owns Jagex, CVC, doesn't seem to own any pure-AI plays, at least from perusing through their portfolio page. There are, however, quite a large number of European IT service companies, many of them B2B-focused, so your theory still holds weight. Would need to go play with that support bot to try and find where it came from to go deeper down this rabbit hole.
The one I was a little surprised to find was Therme, a spa company that has gotten some colossal kickbacks from the Ontario government, including a 99-year lease of public land to build a spa where nobody wants one and the cars get a view of the lakefront from the 8-storey parking garage.
Least schizo osrs player đ, but damn we're really in an abusive relationship with jagex
Just type it twice in a row, first request expected response format is obviously wrong on their side but it always worked for me the second time.
Is it because it's 2025?
Tried 2024 as well, trust me đ
Nah CLEARLY it was made on the 12th day of the 30th month /s
All support bots suck
Oh that bot absolutely needs to go. It's actually infuriating to work with. Just let me send a ticket in and get a reply a week later. That would be infinitely better.
You can still do that here (found via the "Contact us" link at the top of every support page)
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They don't deserve respect.
itâs fucking is :D
đ
I'm an awful person for laughing at the screenshot.
I hope a JMod sees this but it may be worth posting again on Monday if none do, or if the dumbass bot doesn't somehow correct itself. I don't think they're around much on weekends, if at all.
It looks like you might have an extra space between the â-â and â12â?
There's not. You're getting confused by the fact that the "1" has a bunch of empty space in the middle left.
Lol sit OP
Its trivial to eat/ignore whitespace with real code. AI on the other hand...
The jagex chat bot sucks massively, I was using it to try and recover an old account around 6 months ago. Before email accounts and it was guiding me through the process "no problem let me take some details" and it went through the questions and crashed twice.
Literally 30 minutes wasted.
Just God awful.
as someone who also used the chat support bot, it was fine except for the date question, it had to ask me like 2-3 times to put it in the exact same before it recognized it.
Clearly you're supposed to put the '?' after the date. It told you that
Use UTC time. If your timezone is UTC-5 and it was paid for example 2024-12-30 at 10:30pm, it was 2024-12-31 already. Perhaps that is the solution?
What if u put â2024.12.30â
did you try YYYY-DD-MM
Had the exact same thing happen to me a few months ago lol
I've seen enough!
RELEASE THE 10th ROADMAP
it* Cowboy đ¤ đ¤
The bot tried to tell me that support is unable to transfer membership to a different account. I told the bot there is literally a page on the website explaining how to open a ticket to do that, and it tried to tell me that the website is wrong lmfao
r/iso8601
It's working for me, I'm not sure what went wrong for you. Maybe you were manually typing answers instead of clicking the options provided?
If all else fails, you can skip the AI and open a ticket the old way. You may need to choose
I don't recognise a charge on my bank statementif you don't have access to your account. I recommend you specify in your ticket that you've just lost access to the account, though.edit: In case you're curious, the options I chose with the chat bot were:
"Cancel Subscription" (manually typed) -> Yes -> Jagex -> Credit or Debit -> No -> Answer prompts from the screenshot
This exact interaction with the support bot claiming my date format was wrong happened to me months ago and was actually the catalyst for me quitting the game (the support ticket experience somehow got worse from there). Fortunately there are enough other game companies out there that respect me as a customer to keep me entertained indefinitely. My IGN was Rianzo on the slim chance anyone at Jagex is interested enough to fact check me
It, not it's
Well in game bots already run the game and jagex can't do much so good luck lol
"umm(pause), i get what you're saying, but it's out of my knowledge. let's change the topic, shall we(yes or yes)? anyway, the roses are red and the violets are blue. are there any other topics that i could help you with, such as cooking shrimps or something like that, sir?"
Hear me out, so we can contact the 2 companies that own Jagex, & let them know their game doesnât even have customer service
Why would we even need that date to cancel a subscription. Thatâs just predatory BS, if I want to cancel something Iâm being charged for and you do this, Iâm just going to call the company and renew my card at that point I guess
your last payment date was december 30th? M8 it's december 27th
2024.
correct format is ddmmyyyy and idgaf what anyone else says
You forgot the question mark
Don't think that's a bot the way it wrote the question, you sure it's not top tier talent that they got on the cheap?
I was wondering that too, the question mark is so out of place. Is it a bot? Some Indian dude? A bot made by some Indian company? Is the question mark an important part of the date format, like does OP need to type â2024-12-30?â
Wtf is this date format to begin with? It's literally in reverse, maybe that's why it's confused. Did you try DD/MM/YY like a normal person? Or even MM/DD/YY is more acceptable.
it's a world-wide accepted ISO standard. It's used extensively in computing
Fair enough, it's the first time I see anyone using this kind of format.
literally only the USA uses the weird one
Lol no. American burger
This format let's you sort alphabetically