I got a dog a few years ago, and as I enter my 30's and am spending time around parents a lot more, I can't help but find it funny that we've somehow normalized the conversation about having a dog as a huge responsibility, yet this same conversation doesn't come up as much or have nearly the same weight to it when it comes to having children.
I'm not a parent, but it doesn't take being one to see how many people should not be parents. One of the most common examples is when I hear parents complain about their children acting in a way that they don't understand. 9/10 times its because feelings are not being communicated due to the parents not realizing that they haven't created an environment where their kids feel safe and supported to communicate in such a way. Another one is raising the child to be everything the parent didn't get that they wanted growing up, but doing it in a very unhealthy and overly compensatory way.
I'm not discounting that societal pressures and physical age are major factors when it comes to the decision of having children. And of course it's our innate purpose and right to have children. But I think society would be a bit better off if discussion and self-reflection on the responsibility and readiness of having children was encouraged more.
u/Yerbawls, your post does fit the subreddit!
I mean, great point but I think that 9/10 doctor's agree with this opinion, not exactly relevant to the subreddit.
Honestly I agree. I am surprised because I was expecting a lot of ad hominem counter points and claims on how there is no concrete way of knowing when one is prepared to have children or when they should or shouldn't have children
How do you know the children weren't talked about as a responsibility? Less and less people are having them, sure you know. The reasons people are waiting are deeply personal. It's absurd to think that most people don't know how much responsibility a kid is. Hell, there is a whole high school class dedicated to it. More people than ever are getting therapy, learning about toxic environments/behaviors, and taking emotions into account. Expecting people to be perfect parents is judgey.
People will always make mistakes and struggle. Expecting anyone to be perfect is unrealistic and that's not exclusive to parents. You're a dog owner. How many people do you know see a wagging tail and think the interaction is good? How many people inadvertently create separation anxiety in their dogs? How many people cause behavior problems with the best intentions? Okay.
Don't break your neck falling off that high horse.
I get what you're saying. Not to be petty, but in the dog community, it's often touted that those who unforeseeably have to give up their dogs or create separation anxiety or other behavior issues with their dogs should not have gotten a dog. Of course no one can predict or control the future, but the emphasis of sacrifice and responsibility is there. With children it seems that the norm is always "yeah we'll figure it out. We'll make it work." Not "I have X amount in savings. I am in a good spot career-wise. I have energy outside of work. My partner and I are on the same page in how we want to raise our children." and so on.
No parent is going to be perfect. The expectation I am setting is that parents and people planning on becoming parents should know more that it's a JOB more than anything and always emphasize that priority.
I do agree with pretty much all of the first paragraph. I think less people having kids nowadays, more people getting therapy, high school classes covering this stuff, which are all things I have experienced in my own life, are all signs that this expectation exist and is becoming more popularized.
While I get why you are calling me out on being on a high horse, I think that in itself is also an issue that many parents face. They get extremely defensive and insecure when their parenting gets addressed or called out. I think that should be normalized more. The "who are you to tell me how to raise my child" claim is extremely detrimental because its putting the parent's fragile ego above the responsibility.
Thought it was obvious.
I think it’s because people see pet ownership and something they can get out of easily. If you don’t want your pet you can literally drive across town, open the car, let them out and drive away. It’s already understood that you can’t do this with a child.
I mean, normally when you have good grandparents in it; if the parent isn’t being a good parent, this is how the grandparents react. A lot of people just don’t have guides for when they’re fucking up, assuming these are the parents that WANT to be good parents
reminds me of that saying, takes a village to raise a child. I do think modern day society and the nuclear family makes it 100x times harder. I also think the one that want to be good parents eventually find the guides for when they're fucking up. It's the ones that can't admit they're fucking up that never get the guidance they need. I know there's more reason behind that, too, but I'll leave it at that
This is 100% an impression you have, and nothing more. You've made a GIGANTIC JAWDROPPING absurd assessment.
When a person who not a parent, gets a dog or cat, yes indeed, others will be talking to you in exactly those terms: its a big responsibility, relative to the lifestyle you came from i.e. looking out for number #1 only. When you have a pet, that all changes. You have a moral and caretaker/responsible pet-owner obligations to this animal under your care.
The concepts involved with pet-ownership, are useful as an introductory conceptual exercise that will help prepare you by way of practising thinking and preparing and planning a lifestyle that now includes a totally dependent being e.g. thinking beyond yourself routinely, on a daily basis.
Think of it this way. An analogy: Pet ownership, is a 4-week summer bridging course for High School graduates to prepare them for undergraduate University study.
Family planning and child rearing is an undergraduate Bachelor degree. Two children, is a double-degree undergraduate bachelor study regime. This is the real deal - the bigtime. Pet ownership is "trainer-wheels": a velvet-gloves introduction to the concepts of looking after something.
How come my brother loves his dogs to pieces and treats them like kings, but abandoned his kids?
To continue to use my education analogy: Do all graduates of high school, go on to University? Let take it one step further: how many High School graduates, begin their Undergraduate Degree, but drop out, or indefinitely defer?
Some people can handle handle the modest demands of pet ownership, but absolutely fail miserably at being a parent. Many wonderful parents, never owned or came from a household that had any pets. People treat pet ownership as potentially insightful for the role of parenting, and there are small handful of parallels, but that is where the similarities end: child-rearing is a monumental task, that makes pet ownership pale in comparison.
Your brother feels the simplicity of pet ownership is more his pace, i suspect.
this sounds like someone asked AI to generate a cliche, insufferable redditor response that is 90% word fluff
That's your way of saying "This Redditors grasp of the English language is slightly more sophisticated than mine...and I dont like it! shake fist 👊 Youre making me feel inferior and inadequate, and its everyone else's fault except mine! Stop it!"
So, you do realise thats a YOU problem?
Yeah I don't know about this. I'm not offended or feeling inferior. I'm also confident with my grasp of english. I'm just being blunt in saying that this was verbose and not very coherent. You say its gigantic jawdropping absurd statement, so I was expecting some following statements to support that which I read none. I'm not here to offend and feel offended, I'm here to discuss differing opinions that are somewhat coherent which yours is not.
Oh, theres no mistaking you have significant English reading comprehension deficiencies, ill illustrate some:
Literally, the very next paragraph, i illustrate in precisely what way your assessment is absurd:
Read this slowly, and carefully. Now, think 🤔. Who do you think the "person" is? Answer: that's you. Not a parent, but youre about to undergo a lifestyle change due to your recent decision to get a pet - your experiences has been people around you commenting on this change that's occuring in your life. This first sentence establishes WHY people are discussing with you the subject of pets, and not children, or by way of relevance, discussing their own parenting experiences with you, because theres no expectation that you would be able to relate to those experiences - you have no children, and youve just recently decided to become a pet owner. Very little correlation between these two topics. Simple, yes?
Further illustration of English Reading comprehension inadequacies, in what was being traversed in the reminder of the post:
The implication is this: unbeknownst to you, youre wading into two topics that you know precious, precious little about. First one is pet-ownership. All the intellectual exercises about what's involved that youve commited to a Reddit post, soon, will count for very little , consider that a spoiler alert. The practical, hands-on day-to-day routines and challenges is going to challenge the layout of home life. Most, find these new daily routines, challenging but manageable. Not uncommon to find other new pet owners to become overwhelmed and experience buyer's remorse.
Second, is parenting. Now here, youre brandishing your arse - like i said, rendering a mindblowingly absurd assessment about a topic that youre not a participant, nor have any useful knowledge about, and would make less than a sensible discussion partner for the topic.
The closest thing you have, in point of fact, is your ambition to be a pet owner, now in terms of that somehow bestowing upon you insight into the world of parenting, it counts for absolutely diddly.
Here, is where you need to really furrow your brow , and think: what would compel a parent to share with you, or involve you in a discussion about parenting when you know precisely zilch about it?
Now. Has the penny dropped yet?
THAT is why you hear so little discussion about parenting from others around you - its not because they have lowered priorities about their parental obligations, ONLY low expectations about your ability to empathize and understand the subject and the incredibly diverse challenges it poses to parenting. THATS WHY parents, talk to other parents, about parenting. Not a non-parent, who aspires to be a pet owner someday.
Wait until you have kids before you give any advice related to parenting.
You don't necessarily have to have done something to be able to recognize that someone else is doing a crap job at it. Are you saying you wouldn't say a word if your dentist tried to fill your cavity using a popsicle stick and used chewing gum, or if the bank teller handed your cash to someone else? "Oooh, can't tell them what they're doing is crappy, I've never done it myself so what do I know!"
To an extent I agree but as someone with CPTSD who’s studied how trauma affects the brain and most childhood trauma comes from parents (even well intending ones)…we’re all in this together and parenting that fell short is the reason why so many people are unhappy and we as a society can’t have nice things. Would I tell someone how to raise their kids? No. But before people become parents they should absolutely be more self reflective and heal themselves. Most of my friends are good parents but they also feel blindsided by how hard it is so I think these topics should be discussed. It’s a conversation not advice.
Yeah the conversation being so touchy for so many parents is what makes this difficult. How can parents ever improve if even bringing up the conversation blindsides them. It's not to villanize them either as other people might be interpreting. Normalizing the conversation in itself is what I think will help make it less of a touchy subject and one that is more ingrained like how we do with pet/dog ownership.
More people need to go to therapy and be committed to lifelong growing and evolving. That would go a long way.