This will probably be a terrible opinion, but here goes:
I grew up in a really small town in the rural deep south in the 90s, and there was never an issue with knowing who disliked you simply because of what you looked like. Everyone was very open about what they felt. Due to this, I developed a way of being which was to take someone's words literally. Going to college and then moving to a major city messed a lot of that learned behavior up for me and I had to adapt and re-adjust but I just never felt quite right. I still don't identify sarcasm well. Nowadays, I feel like I'm back in my small town everywhere I go. The bigotry is no longer just online. For most people that's a terrible thing. For myself, I'm ecstatic.
Don't get me wrong...people said some pretty foul stuff to me especially after I would best their children in academic competitions(spelling bee, etc). So that's not specifically the part I miss. I simply missed not having to guess where everyone stood. This has made it much easier to have a diverse group of friends without having to wonder on which day one of them will slip up and say something completely ridiculous about a group of people that aren't them.
u/SailEquivalent2753, your post does fit the subreddit!
I sort of get where you’re coming from, but I’d prefer that people feel uncomfortable being openly discriminatory.
Makes choosing friends and family a lot easier
I understand where you are coming from but that's how people sneak up on you. You can only be aware of the things that actually present themselves in some way. Trying to see what isn't visible is paranoia.
Most of the time it doesn’t really matter. I will not form a close relationship with most people, so even if they’re only performative it doesn’t really make a difference to me. Most people will not have to deal with their bullshit.
Exactly, this is how people end up married to someone who hates their race, gender, sexuality etc because they actively hid their preferences from you. It’s such an unnecessary nightmare
I go back and forth on it. Part of me just wishes we could bring back shame, but the other part of me wonders if this is just a case of deep-rooted poison rising to the surface.
I also get where they’re coming from
The really dangerous people will already have been fine being open about it
It’s the sneaky pieces of shit that I find out about later in life that I wanna avoid
Idk. Personally, I think it's nice to know who isn't worth my time.
There's a Malcolm X quote about (white) liberals which is basically about this very thing:
“A fox is always more dangerous in the forest than the wolf. You can see the wolf coming. You know what he's up to. But the fox will fool you. He comes at you with his mouth shaped in such a way that even though you see his teeth, you think he's smiling and take him for a friend.”
Which is to say: you're spot on. Whilst it's "worse" when the bigots say shit directly to you, it's ultimately safer because at least you know for a fact where you stand.
I couldn’t stop thinking about this after the last presidential election when i kept hearing lifelong democrats go from “trans rights are human rights” to “maybe we should compromise on the lgbtq stuff” 😬
downvoted due to autism lol. Ik you said you don't have it but I do.
My literal first thought was that this was probably an Autism thing. Idk what set off the bells for that with me, maybe him saying that he doesn’t understand sarcasm and takes everything literally. Not Autistic so not trying to spread stereotypes, glad I saw I wasn’t the only one who thought this
Strangely, the word choice "best" rather than "beat" set off my autism detector as well.
How on earth did my use of best indicate autism? 😂
Literally any normal human quirk is considered a "sign of autism" now (at least for fools online).
Ignore these creeps, nowadays everybody thinks everybody is AUDHD and people think because they have a mental illness they can diagnose better than a doctor 🙄
No one tried to diagnosis lol, he described a clear symptom of Autism and it made a lot of people wonder
Genuinely, how did we reach autism claims?
Not understanding sarcasm and taking words literally is an autistic trait.
So is being super good at sarcasm
Failure of sarcasm and seeking underlying meaning in text are not guaranteed autistic traits. The paragraph is more suggestive of someone following the culture they grew up in, more than anything.
I promise I'm not. I simply didn't grow up with it. My father is from a straightforward culture that does not mince words. This was compounded by how verbally violent my community was. Especially the Sheriff's department.
I dunno man, rural Deep South in the 90’s with a father who doesn’t mince words? Seems like a breeding ground for Autism to go undiagnosed
i love seeing autistic people describe their autism without knowing/understanding/accepting the diagnostic criteria in which they live in, and especially our masked ones who took the criteria too literally and thought that was the reason they weren't autistic
I love seeing completely unqualified people diagnose absolute strangers as autistic based on a reddit post.
🙄 oh my God do not diagnose strangers online. This isn’t TikTok, what OP described is a cultural difference between where he grew up where people probably openly used slurs vs a city where people are bigoted behind closed doors.
If this is something you regularly do, cut it out.
I’did rather deal with an open bigot then I would I closeted one
This really resonates with me.
I grew up in the holler, in the 90s, in West Virginia. I was from the only mixed race family in the area. We were the only ones in our whole school. And people were very straightforward. And I agree that it's better to know who the bigots are.
I resonated again with a question about sarcasm. People suggest that you are on the spectrum when you don't always recognize sarcasm, but for me that would be the only trait I had, so I know it's not that.
But this reflection on your upbringing maybe you think that may be the reason I don't really recognize people being sarcastic as an adult. Usually, it's just somebody being an asshole anyway so I actually think it's a great mental health benefit to not recognize it.
Where I live now people do not communicate directly. It is widely known to be a really passive aggressive society of people and I frequently misunderstand them even after 20 years of living here. And they cannot handle conflict. They tremble at the idea of a confrontation. I don't have that problem because of the way I grew up. These people have so much anxiety too because they carry everything around. They don't know the calm feeling of resolution even if it must happen through a confrontation. They are also more comfortable, as you mentioned in your life, they are more comfortable not knowing who the shit heads are. I want to know. I would welcome a change where people spoke more directly. It's so much easier to navigate life and navigate people and social when you have all of the data. When you live rural, everybody knows everybody and their cousin, and we know who to avoid.
I appreciate this. I feel seen.
I understand this, when people are openly hateful dealing with them is so much easier. You don't end up having friends who fetishize your identity and by extent - you, and feel so violated that you'd need years worth of therapy to be able to trust anyone ever again.
This is why I am a huge supporter of free speech! Let them say the hateful thing so I know they are hateful. Freedom of speech is SO important
Touch of the tism?
not even a little bit. If you grew up where I did, you'd likely understand.
Seriously, I didn’t know this was the “am I autistic?” Subreddit lol
I mean....you could also have a touch of the tylenol.
Growing up in Appalachia though I do agree with you to a degree.
Lol
Big mood though. I’m autistic and grew up in rural Appalachia. The racists were openly racist growing up. The sexists were openly sexist. There was still a lot of allistic and NT song and dance and read between the lines for other stuff, but on other stuff it was real easy to know where people stood.
Go to the city, or once times started to get better about recognizing racism and sexism were bad, and people started hiding that better and suddenly there was a lot more trying to read between lines (and I’m definitely better at it than I was growing up, and I want to say I’m better at it than some autistics, and I try to teach other autistics when able. Autism runs in my family, and my mom has tried to teach me the allistic and NT social cues and songs and dances to get around in the world, the scripts to use, the implications different things have, all the hidden meanings, etc. I think my family including mom have done so well explicitly teaching because they all had to explicitly teach each other to survive).
Lately with Trump… it’s been weird. It’s really shitty to hear how some people really feel and just how deep down their hatred runs. That so many people around you actually really are intolerant bigots. At the same time, it’s almost refreshing to just hear it plain out and not have to have a realization that Jimmothy over there is a sexist/ racist/ homophobic/ anti-Semitic/ Zionist/ whatever else dude after having thought he was a decent guy and trusting him. Like I’d rather just know off the bat how you feel than develop a friendly relationship and then discover you hate people like myself, my friends, or anyone else for being different in some way and then have to be like, “woah, back it up, you realize I fall into these categories that you hate, riiiiiight? And I’m very protective of all these other categories of people and their rights?”
Life is easier when I know where people stand. When I don’t have to think they’re good people and realize they aren’t. When I don’t want to think now that I know them personally maybe I can change them because they know someone in some of these categories now (I’d just be their token friend for why they can’t be phobic or whatever as I try and tell them they’re being problematic 6 ways from Sunday…)
The thing that gets me the most is that I watched in real time, people I knew who were very bigoted try to change how they were perceived and now those same people are back to saying the same stuff they were saying previously. A wolf in sheep's clothing if I've ever seen one.
I don't like the hate that's going around but at least the haters are more visible so I know who not to waste my time with
precisely.
Part of why I like living in the north is that it’s easy to tell if someone dislikes you. Part of why I don’t like the increase in hateful rhetoric is that I think it stems from a decrease in shame, not just a willingness to be more transparent.
I think there’s a way to have your cake and eat it too here.
Hope that makes sense; it’s late where I’m at
It was easy in the south in the 90s too despite what everyone says about certain -isms being almost phased out of society. I think I understand where you are coming from.
I know exactly what you mean. That said if you just judge people by their actions instead of their words you will still know exactly where they stand.
And if you arent close enough to judge their actions their thoughts don't matter much.
I like this. Actions are tough to judge from a well done people will absolutely do things for you and then go and gossip. I try not to think about that too much because it could lead to paranoia if left unchecked.
Ideally, you want to assess people before they do something to harm you.
[deleted]
This is sarcasm since OP won’t be able to tell
And public policy was free of bigotry before? If anything it's easier to see the real intentions when no attempt is made to put up a veneer of "neutral" language.
The thing is... public policy is only as good as those who enforce and where i grew up, there was no enforcing it. If anything, the cops were actually the bad guys. It took years for them to finally go to jail and that was after numerous complaints.
So yeah, by your logic—let’s get more of that….NOT
We already have it and to an extent we never fully removed it to begin with. Everyone who's never lived in a rural area is starting to actually understand what those people are really like on the inside.
I guess so, but it’s not like I’m going to try to make friends with everyone. Most people are just going to be strangers to me and I’d prefer that strangers are uncomfortable being shitty towards me.
How many spelling bee, etc are you participating in?
When I was younger, I competed in the spelling bee every year until the cutoff age. made it to regionals several times and made it to Scripps National once. It wasn't just spelling bee though. My main activity was quiz bowl through NAQT. We had a great team so we normally had to compete for a spot which I consistently was in the top 5 for(4+1 alternate). I didn't realize it immediately, but a lot of those parents thought I wasn't smart or that I cheated or something.
Nazis should be afraid like come on bruh this is crazy talk
The anti-antifa right are outright announcing they're fascist.
If you're against people who are against fascism - you are pro-fascism. They are just saying it. Trump, Vance, and GOP are fascists.
They defend nazis
I know you say in other comments that you don't have autism, but this is absolutely giving neurodivergence. I say that with love. That said, it is nice to have people outright state what they mean as long as it isn't actively harmful (ie racism, homophobia, religious bigotry). I think there's a balance somewhere between both.
I understand how this could be a better experience for an individual socially, but culturally this is very bad news. The more people feel comfortable being socially open with bigotry, more likely that bigotry is going to bleed into laws and actions. Being comfortable saying something hateful is the prerequisite being comfortable doing something hateful.
For some of us, it never stopped. Societal hatred of me was my default. To be fair, my society was a very small rural town but that's what I knew. Now it's too run-down for the hatred to make sense. They all need each other now.
I get where you're coming from. When I was younger (living in a smaller city) it was obvious who you didn't get along with and you didn't try to fake it.
Now that I live in a bigger city I've had a really hard time gauging who likes me and who doesn't. People can be extremely passive aggressive but like 90% passive and 10% aggressive so it feels covert and hard to detect.
Someone else made a comment about a wolf vs a fox and the fox being sky and coming across as a friend first which is so true. I found the women out here to almost "play" with me and then use what they learn against me whole continuing to be performatively nice when I can tell they don't really like me. Shits confusing. I'd rather not play this game.
The game is why I stopped making friends after college. I had more than a few(at least 3) occurrences of someone saying some terrible bs about some other group of people. I won't hang with bigots and too many people aren't aware enough to know they are one. Or at least that they have an opinion that hasn't been earned.
George Carlin had a bit about being glad for loudmouth bigots because you knew where they stood.
What doesn't George Carlin have a bit about? The man was a prophet.
Truth
A lot of people share this opinion. I would rather someone hate me and know it then be unsure where I stand with someone and second guessing interactions. I have lived in big cities to tiny towns that is mostly farms. Cities are great for some things but everyday interactions with people is not one of them.
Love this take
The problem is that everyone hasn't allowed their mask to slip, only people who hold certain political beliefs. Others are still masking or even in outright denial about their own bigotry. Generally, though, I agree, it just seems like an insane balancing act between having bigots be more open (and the inevitable tantrums when you don't want to associate with them) and the general culture being more bigoted.
The thing is that it doesn't actually matter because the status quo is shifting at the same time. Like they are comfortable going mask off for a reason, and the more they do the more it convinces the people around them that the opinions are normal. Even if your response is dropping people, it doesn't mean other people will do the same, and in the last decade or so I've watched people who used to stand beside me against bigotry become the ones spouting it instead as most of their social circle becomes infected with openly stated bad opinions.
There's no guarantee that someone that seems to be suddenly saying the quiet part loud by standards of 5 yrs ago definately is and doesn't have another level of prejudice lurking that's even worse. I had multiple strangers assure me it was ok to stop masking unsolicited when the mandate dropped, only to be clearly mortified when told my cousin had just has a baby, still too young for a vaccine. Like virtue signaling is alive and well and I have actually never been more scared that people are hiding their shitty true feelings.
I am of the belief that you can change people’s behaviour but not their values. And this goes both ways: I don’t expect my (conservative) parents to accept LGBTQ theories any time soon, but they know what not to do or say that is discriminatory.
So imo pretending that everyone is super progressive (and ostracising those who aren’t) isn’t a solution, you’re just going to force those folks deeper underground. And for that group to reach critical mass and backfire. Trump 2024 is one such example.
I'm arguing that those people are no longer hiding and that's a good thing. They were forced underground previously but no longer and I think that's good. It makes it even easier to know who not to associate with. I don't think they are progressive. Quite the opposite actually.
Must be nice to not be at the receiving end of that.
You think I'm not?
Then how is it any better to receive violence and bigotry? Covert or overt, it’s still there.
You seem to be arguing that it needs to be eradicated completely. I agree with you. However, it will never be so it is better to know who is and isn't in my opinion.
I don't think "it will never be completely eradicated", that sounds unnecessarily defeatist to me. But it hasn't been eradicated. It still exists.
I’m saying people receive disproportionate amounts of bigotry irl, so you saying it’s better to be on the receiving end of overt (which can be life threatening for some), is not necessarily better. I’d much rather they seethe and stew than attempt to ruin my day. It’s still there, people will always show who they are.
That's why in our culture "causeless" smile is considered to be a symptom of demetia. Small talk, smile for everyone and noone are signs of insincerity, so we dun partake in this. And so we're considered to be rude and grim people.
This. And side note, Americans (and Canadians and anyone whose culture becomes Americanized) believes that their way is the only way to live, and that anything else is mental illness or needs a drug or an attitude adjustment.
Reading all the comments, reflecting quite a bit, and wondering... are there places to live in the US where people are mostly genuine AND not racist/sexist?
Yes but those people would likely end up being classist so same problem. You'd need a place where everyone mostly lived together and interacted with each other on a daily basis. Most meros in the south, not Florida, are like this but there is a lot of pressure from the surrounding counties/suburbs about how terrible the city is, etc.
I would say people don't need to be assholes, but as an autistic person, I do generally appreciate you being honest instead of tap dancing.